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Post by adolphuscrowfeather on Jul 3, 2015 4:16:19 GMT -6
My biggest problem is not having one text to go to. Like most of us I think experienced, we need a good compendium of books and texts in order to learn, and not only that, but negate the, what's the word, crap books, and actually find the good books whilst knowing most is Christianised and needs books and info not so in order to have a good enough basis to negate the Christian things in the good texts that may or may not even cover 1% of the religion. There is more, but I'll post more later.
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Post by saintfelicity on Jul 11, 2015 7:26:57 GMT -6
My biggest problem is not having one text to go to. Like most of us I think experienced, we need a good compendium of books and texts in order to learn, and not only that, but negate the, what's the word, crap books, and actually find the good books whilst knowing most is Christianised and needs books and info not so in order to have a good enough basis to negate the Christian things in the good texts that may or may not even cover 1% of the religion. There is more, but I'll post more later. Yeah I'm definitely... perpetually stumped there. I mean, I guess I should just try not to worry about it because it's not something that I myself would remotely be able to contribute to for years and years, but, I like to think about what that would look like for Gaelic Polytheism. I don't know if this comes from monotheism (and Catholicism specifically) or just from the internet community often being difficult to navigate, but what I'd really like is a resource that provides a basic overview while also teaching you how to individualize your practice, because wrapping my head around the concept of "there is no single right way to do this" since historically GaelPol was highly localized. (I know some people who-shall-not-be-named-because-evidently-they-have-google-alerts who are aiming to work on such a book but... I do not want it from them)
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Post by Allec on Jul 11, 2015 23:15:34 GMT -6
Lora O'Brien's book "Irish Witchcraft from an Irish Witch" is sorta like that...but it doesn't really include any myths, just mentions to myths and lore.
(That's obviously only useful for Irish Polytheists, too...not polytheists in general.)
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Post by TheModernSouthernPolytheist on Jul 21, 2015 19:18:31 GMT -6
Similarly to Ashley's relatives, I was raised to believe in other entities than YHWH, but that they were all demons or evil spirits. The church and my family told me that the gods others prayed to were really Lucifer's fallen angels trickin humans into worshipping them so they could drag their souls to Hell. It's a really fucked up way to view the world and when I think about things like that, it's no wonder that out of the several thousand people in the youth group I attended, only about 50 still attend the church we grew up in. I'm having this issue at the moment, especially considering the fact that the deities knocking at my door are actually specifically called demons or fallen angels in the Bible or other relevant texts. (Biggest example here: Lilith.) I don't really believe that anymore, but there's still this nagging voice in the back of my head that asks, what if you're wrong? Ugh, horrible. Just a month late back to this party, lol. But I totally feel ya there. I still have nagging "what if I'm wrong?!?!" feelings. I know I don't believe that stuff anymore, but when you're indoctrinated into it, it's damn hard to shake.
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Post by Intaier on Aug 4, 2015 2:46:33 GMT -6
Two my last blog posts are dedicated to personal religious journey, the "choosing" of religion vs "being called home"... and dealing with monotheism and "recovery" too. Latria: They want your soul [ part I] and [ part II]
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Post by Intaier on Dec 23, 2015 18:47:00 GMT -6
From my recent blog posts (two responses to people dealing with feeling of guilt in christmas season)
+++
It’s interesting that yesterday [...thinking about Christmas season...], I realized that I indeed advanced on my path to freedom from the feeling of guilt. I didn’t feel connected with christian calendar observance anymore; surely I will say congratulations to friends and if people will wish me Merry Christmas, I will say the same thing back.
But I felt that it’s not really my holiday now: I did not feel that I really MUST visit the church, even if I can do it if I want (there are no restrictions), and I may listren to Christmas music and look at lovely decorations and may be meet some old friends. But I did not feel that I really want or need it.
But it was very hard and painful way, actually, and very long. It required careful alchemical work on my soul, to heal me from all the scars that christian feelings of fear and guilt imprint into our psyche.
I realized that I don’t feel guilty about not wanting to go to church service. And, the fears are disappearing too.
If people (christians) are so sure about their religion, this is good for them, and let them enjoy. But sometimes, very good church-going christians also are not sure “what they are doing”; great saints did have doubts; “dark night of the soul” concept comes from Christian mysticism; and you can’t be 100% sure, looking at happy crowd of people gathered for church service, that ALL of them are absolutely happy about their religion, and don’t have doubts, and that their faith is strong.
I still agree with lots of catholic things :) But, because catholic dogmatic teaching strongly forbids polytheism (this is in the catechism: you are not allowed to worship anyone BUT God-The-Trinity, and venerate religiously anyone but Mary, Angels and Saints). If you recognize the existence of Other benevolent divine beings, who are not angels, and not saints, and especially if you recognize the existence of ancient Gods as individuals… this would not give you a chance to be catholic-in-good-standing. Apostate and heretic, yes (and nothing really bad with it =)
But really it took me VERY long time to get relieved and refreshed from these fears and feeling of guilt for “betraying the faith”. These fears are made for control. They don’t help to grow real Love. You are not obliged to be a christian, and there are millions of good people in the world who are not christians. You can be a good person and follow religion of your choice. Our hearts are judged, as far as I see it, by our deeds, not by our beliefs. The “orthodoxy” is also invented as tool for control. Control the mind and make you obedient to Church as institution and authority. But Truth is what makes you free, not puts you in chains.
… Also, if you have a gift of godphone, you are never alone! It’s really valuable gift. Just call the Gods and wish them happy holidays :) and try not to feel so alone.
I thought this fear of hell and feeling of guilt became my baggage for decades. But I can say now from my own experience that it is possible, to get healed from them.
I’ve been praying about this, and I feel now that my prayers were heard :)
+++
I think I will make next long blog post about overcoming the feelings of guilt. It took me really long time. I was not raised catholic (quite lucky to be raised as secular science-oriented agnostic-atheist), and my journey through religions was entirely my own choice, but indeed influenced by society and people around. This is why I tried to follow the church of my ancestors (russian Orthodox), and then escaped to Catholicism, because it was much more appealing. However, it was too late, because I already had real experience with Netjeru. It was not fantasy, mind-play or archetypes. It was real presence, experience that could not be simply denied. I did not want to continue living my life with eyes closed, and rejecting the wonderful world of ancient Gods just because the Church did not allow it. The forbidden fruit of polytheism is very tasty thing :)
And I followed my heart and love. I did not reject the divinity of Jesus and his historical existence, though.
The sermon of christian preacher of early christian era, st.Justin, speaks to me very well now (this is from his speech directed to the hellenes):
St.Justin, Apology, chapter 22
But as to the Son of God called Jesus,—even though he were only a man [born] in the common way, [yet] because of [his] wisdom is he worthy to be called Son of God; for all writers call God “Father of men and gods.” And if we say [further] that he was also in a special way, beyond his common birth, begotten of God [as] Word (Logos) of God, let us have this in common with you who call Hermes the Word (Logos) who brings tidings from God.
[alternative translation]
Moreover, the Son of God called Jesus, even if only a man by ordinary generation, yet, on account of His wisdom, is worthy to be called the Son of God; for all writers call God the Father of men and gods. And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury [Hermes] is the angelic word of God.
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thehistorian
Newbie
Posts: 5
Pronouns: He/Him
Religion: Hellenic Polytheism
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Post by thehistorian on Jan 20, 2016 0:19:35 GMT -6
For me, my biggest problem is giving praise to the Gods in the plural sense. I keep catching myself saying or thinking in the singular. It's also kind of hard to get rid of the tiny little voice that says I'm talking to demons. I know I'm not, because I have experienced evil and seen it, and this isn't evil.
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Post by Intaier on Jun 7, 2016 10:50:35 GMT -6
[from my recent blog post]
Freedom of religion
Freedom of religion, and freedom of choosing religion [or choosing none] is one of the most valued FREEDOMS for any human being.
Russian Empire, in the past, was a country where the Orthodox Church was an official, State religion. It was not allowed to change religion, and more than that, people were punished severely for attempts to do so. Leaving Holy Orthodoxy may lead to punishment, penalties, extradiction from country, confiscation of all possessions, imprisonment.
I remember that learning to live in Soviet Union - my home country - I’ve been reading the Constitution (of USSR) and there was one very important thing:
- a citizen is free to belong to ANY religion, or belong to none.
This is very valued freedom of living in a secular state.
This is a guarantee that some monotheist fanatics will not get your stoned because of “denoncing G-d” or however they worded it, if you decide to part ways with your previous monotheistic religion. This is a guarantee that people of all religions are equal before State.
(Actually, modern Russia is making very big step back, introducing laws that protect mainstream religious groups in favor before atheists or other, minor religoins.) But the Soviet Union - in my times - so I mean, time of Brezhnev and later - lost anti-religion attitude. Times of Stalin/Khruschov were quite different. Religion was ridiculed. Orthodoxy was barely tolerated; Khruschov was indeed very anti-religious atheist. But my childhood I spent in a tolerant secular state which allowed me to go free with choosing religion.
I followed Orthodox Christianity first, because it was obviously natural choice - all the cultural and ancestral ties. I loved the music, architecture, sacred art (icons). Russian saints, many of them became exemplars of how one should live a good life. Choosing Catholic Church after long discernment, consideration was also my free choice.
If I lived in XIXth century Russia, I would not be allowed to switch religion - even simply between different denominations of Christianity!
The embracing of Polytheism is another, different and long story and journey. And no, this did not include “denouncing” of the former religion. I found for myself that some of the Church dogmas don’t work for me. I can not force myself to believe things I don’t believe anymore. My personal faith changed shape. The hermetic philosophy helped me a lot to make my understanding not so narrow as it happens with monotheistic view of world.
Accepting the existence of Many Gods doesn’t necessarily mean rejection of the existence and divinity of Jesus. And doesn’t mean rejection of his message of Loving Your Neighbors and Doing the Good Things.
It’s an irony indeed that today I received small message of religious intolerance against me. But this is sad truth. In XXIth century, there are people who dislike other people just for thinking differently and belonging to different religion. It’s a sad thing in our world; people lead wars and cover their lust for blood by religious propaganda.
+++ The last priests of Philae were killed mercilessly by christian mobs, because they stayed loyal to Netjeru. I wonder if I will be strong enough if someone will want to stone me *literally* just for confessing another religion and not being a monotheist. As if gaining followers for your religion through force and hatred is “doing a good thing”. :(
I don’t know if I will be strong enough to receive the crown of martyrdom. Even if 19 years ago, I was almost killed because of religion. It was a miracle perhaps, that I’m alive and well.
And I really hope there would be less religious intolerance in the world. :(
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Post by Intaier on Jun 9, 2016 9:53:20 GMT -6
Religious tolerance: good things
I met this lady who does freelance cleaning, when I saw her placing her ads on the wall, while I stood in the line to pick my jacket from a sewing workshop. I asked her about her prices, she said that company prices are such and such, but also she can come for a freelance home-cleaning because she lives nearby.
As I usually don’t like home cleaning and prefer to rely on cleaning services, not long ago I decided to call her, so she came. She was working on my flat quickly and nicely, while we had a small talk.
She told me that she left her home city to earn extra money for her sick husband. She has a 12-years-old daughter who is currently with father and grandparents. And also she has a son from her first (deceased) husband, and she is very proud of her son.
She said that her son was very devoted to Christ/Orthodox church since childhood. Without his mother pushing about anything, he preferred to observe all fasts since he was six. He preferred to go to church in sundays over usual secular entertainment. He was praying a lot and enjoyed all church activities. At 17, he became a monk. Now he is serving as a priest in orthodox church in her home city. I’ve been listening to a simple story of mother who is proud by her son. Clearly her son was deeply devoted and had a calling to serve God in Orthodox Church. It was his path and I was glad for them.
Then she looked at me and asked if I have children; I said “no”. “Why? It’s a good time for you to have” I answered “Sorry, I made a vow of celibate” She looked at me, wondering. “What? You? You made the vow because of religion?”
I said “Yes. I’m dedicated to God” “Are you Orthodox?” “No, I am not”
She asked “What is your religion then?”
I did not want to answer first. I thought if I can avoid answering that at all, because I did not want a debate about religion, especially about how Orthodox church is superior to other religions. But I also saw that the woman is open-minded and has no intent to hurt me because of my religious views.
I stood still, having all my shrines behind me. The statues of Netjeru looked like they’re carefully watching.
- “About my religion. Are you sure you want to hear my answer?” -”Yes, i do. I’m accepting to all religions” “Ok, - I took a deep breath, - Here is my religion, - I pointed at the shrines. - I worship the Egyptian Gods”
She looked at me with genuine interest and curiosity.
“And what your religion teaches? Is there a supreme Creator who made everything?” “Of course, there is. . The one who created everything. But also there are other Gods. The divine beings with their own personalities and their own free will. You may compare them to Archangels, they are not the Archangels. Just you may see that there are other powerful divine beings; and in our religion we also worship them” “Of course I know the Archangels. There are 9 levels of the celestial hierarchy, you know” “Yes, of course I know. The Gods may be viewed similar as they are benevolent and powerful. But they are not spirits who only serve the Creators. They have their domains to rule over, themselves”.
“But does your religion promise the good afterlife to the righteous?” “Of course yes. You can ascend to paradise, sort of, and commune with the Gods. Just Do the Right Thing. You pass the just judgement. The rules are universal as you have to do more good deeds that bad deeds. Don’t steal. Don’t kill. Don’t lie. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give a boat to the boatless.” “These are universal rules for being a good person on Earth” “Definitely. Loving your neighbor” “And respect the God” “Well, Gods. In our case. Many of them” “And do the good thing” “Yes, we call it maintaining Ma’at, the World Order, Universal Balance. Our Gods fight the Enemy, the evil in the form of cursed snake-of-chaos, every day. By doing the good things, we help to maintain the Balance and so, the Right always wins the battle against what is wrong” “This is what every human is called to! being a good person and do the things of love. You get to meet with your ancestors after death?” “I hope about that, certainly so” “And you pray?” “Regularly. But as our religion doesn’t have working temples in our country, I pray and do religious rituals at home…” “Indeed it’s more important that you pray than where you pray. You have God in your heart”. “Yes, indeed. Place the God in your heart. This is the foundation of the path of devotion. Following the Way-of-God”.
I was citing the inscriptions of my akhu-in-Hermopolis, but these words of ancient-egyptian wisdom were truly universal.
Follow the path of God, Place him in your heart! How blessed are those who walk on his ways, And go on his waters, And reach the Beautiful West after day of veneration”
“And you made a vow of celibate and dedicated to God?” “Yes. I did” “So you are like a nun?” “You can see it as such, indeed, it’s similar. I’m a priestess”
She kept nodding. “Our religions are not so different if they teach people how to lead the good life” “Live and walk in Ma'at” “And honor the Creator who made everything” “Yes, and other Gods too. We honor many. Our religions are not the same, but they convey the message of Truth about living the righteous life, and be justified”. “This is the good thing we share. I respect your choice and path and your devotion. A person must follow their calling” “Yes. I was orthodox christian before but I realized that it’s not a path for me. I followed the calling I felt in my heart” “Follow the calling. It’s important to be where your heart calls you, to feel at spiritual home”
We talked a little more, and then I left her because I had a meeting with old friends.
And this conversation was pleasing to us both. For me, without doubt. This is what I call respectful good interfaith dialogue. We talked as a christian and polytheist, and there was no ground for hate. We understood and respected one other and our religious choices. We agreed on the most important things about living a good life and loving your neighbors and honoring the Divine.
* I wanted to post about this heart-warming encounter, and this is even more relevant these days. Yes, it’s possible to have good, respectful, polite dialogue with a person of another religion. And monotheists and polytheists can find a common ground. And in our view, all people, who Do the Right Things, regardless of religious affiliation, contribute to Ma’at. This is what the world lives on - and we have the sun rising every day.
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Post by Intaier on Sept 1, 2016 17:49:14 GMT -6
(from my blog post)
While I advise to other former monotheists, I often feel myself as an apostate, traitor of the christian faith - this is a problem. Sometimes I feel like a stranger in a generally monotheistic world. I can’t say that I had BIG problems with Christianity. Russian orthodox church I left for good, Catholic was more open and I liked it. Just, it was Not Enough. And rejecting the existence of other Gods was like lying to myself. My (good) christian friend asked me why I need Netjeru, is Jesus not enough? But yeah… He wasn’t.
I did not want to follow the christian doctrine that other Gods don’t exist. I felt Them, I encountered Them, I got proofs They exist and I wanted to be in communion with Them. Staying only christian was like cutting important part of the universe off. I felt the connection with the saints, however. And they heard my prayers. They answered. I think because many of the saints are REAL people and many of them were living amazingly virtuous lives; they achieved blessed afterlife and we can commune with them if we are drawn to them. St.Dominic saved my life; there were other saints also close to me. Those who were humans on Earth before ascension. (I did not really care about “rebranded” pagan gods guised as saints. Church made a big mistake with this “rebranding”.)
I have nothing against historical existence of Jesus : and after all years of worship, indeed even if He wasn’t a God initially, now he is :) There is no need to reject his divinity and some of his teachings about being a good person. I did not develop close personal relationship with Him. But respecting Hm is OK. And I know many GOOD christian people whose love to Jesus is genuine. I believe the incarnation story personally, because … why not? Krishna did this too (incarnated on Earth from human parent) because He wanted… so whatever… we can view Jesus as incarnated God, or a demi-God, or a human who ascended to Godly status. No need to reject Him from our polytheism. There is space for many Gods :)
…I’m healing from that fear and feeling of guilt, but slower than I would want.
One of my biggest fear is to become consumed by that fear of hell again. Fear of hell as most damaging weapon of monotheistic faiths :(
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