aondeug
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Ogams
Feb 20, 2015 17:51:14 GMT -6
Post by aondeug on Feb 20, 2015 17:51:14 GMT -6
Ogham dice sound neat...I made a set of staves myself though I want to make a better set when I get the chance. Ogham dice sound really neat though. But then I just find something really, really appealing about dice. Dice just feel. Right. I wouldn't know how to make them though. Gragh. I should learn.
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Post by Allec on Feb 20, 2015 18:15:26 GMT -6
Well, I can share how I made them! I got six blank 6-sided dice from this website. Since the Ogham Tracts breaks up the Feda and Forfeda into 5 five-parts, each dice is a "section" with a blank so that if nothing from that part is important, a blank will show instead. (If you did the math, you realize I have an extra dice. I had this for if I made any errors with the main 5 but then I also made a yes/no dice out of it when I didn't.) Took a sharpie and marked the sides of the dice. I hope that makes sense? I can be bad at explaining directions ^^;
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aondeug
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Ogams
Feb 20, 2015 18:34:58 GMT -6
Post by aondeug on Feb 20, 2015 18:34:58 GMT -6
Ahhhhh ok. Yes that sounds simple enough. Thank you.
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veritywhitethorn
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Ogams
Feb 21, 2015 1:16:57 GMT -6
Post by veritywhitethorn on Feb 21, 2015 1:16:57 GMT -6
That's a really clever idea Allec, I had no idea you could even buy dice blanks. Good to know! And I'm glad a couple of people have resonated with the energy-flow-feelings I described above!
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aondeug
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Post by aondeug on Feb 27, 2015 19:50:18 GMT -6
I NOW HAVE DICE. I must begin messing with them...
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Post by Allec on Mar 16, 2015 22:20:41 GMT -6
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leithincluan
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Post by leithincluan on Mar 19, 2015 16:33:14 GMT -6
The Ogham dice are a great idea! I work with staves and stones, but I like the idea of dice and may try that.
Anyone used Erynn Rowan Laurie's book? I found it extremely useful as a starting-point. The other book I've used is The Poet's Ogam - it's by an Irish guy and based on traditional sources, although his interpretations can be odd and need to be taken with a pinch of salt. I use Ellison's book, too, which is much better than the title would suggest. I suspect that the publishers had a hand in assigning a title to that, in a 'we'll publish this if you title it something with mass appeal' way.
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Ciar Lionheart
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Ogams
Mar 19, 2015 17:29:10 GMT -6
Allec likes this
Post by Ciar Lionheart on Mar 19, 2015 17:29:10 GMT -6
The Ogham dice are a great idea! I work with staves and stones, but I like the idea of dice and may try that. Anyone used Erynn Rowan Laurie's book? I found it extremely useful as a starting-point. The other book I've used is The Poet's Ogam - it's by an Irish guy and based on traditional sources, although his interpretations can be odd and need to be taken with a pinch of salt. I use Ellison's book, too, which is much better than the title would suggest. I suspect that the publishers had a hand in assigning a title to that, in a 'we'll publish this if you title it something with mass appeal' way. I've been wanting to get a look at Laurie's book for a while, but since I still haven't found a job I don't really have much in the way of personal spending money. I'll add The Poet's Ogam to my to-buy list as well—thank you!
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veritywhitethorn
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Ogams
Mar 20, 2015 18:11:24 GMT -6
Post by veritywhitethorn on Mar 20, 2015 18:11:24 GMT -6
I'll have a look for the Poet's Ogam and Laurie's book too - sounds intriguing. I'd be interested to hear from leithincluan (and anyone else who wants to pipe up) - do you assign significance to the birds/animals/ etc that are corresponded with each few by virtue of starting with the same letter? (Ellison gives lists of these, as does Kelly — eg luis is associated with luch (mouse) and lacha (duck))
If you do view them as significant (eg the lore of the particular animal provides insights into the meaning of the few, as the trees are generally supposed to do) do you think this is a historical way of looking at it, or is it a modern way?
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Post by Allec on Mar 20, 2015 18:20:36 GMT -6
I have not, but I'm going to think about it now! Especially because I keep seeing certain animals that have no lore that makes sense to me.
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Post by Allec on Mar 20, 2015 18:22:24 GMT -6
I also have no idea about the dating of the idea. Do either of your books you read do that?
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veritywhitethorn
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Ogams
Mar 20, 2015 19:18:08 GMT -6
Post by veritywhitethorn on Mar 20, 2015 19:18:08 GMT -6
The Ellison book contains the most information about this that I have readily available. Here's a couple of excerpts:
"The Mnemonic Lists River Pool Ogham – This system equates the symbols with rivers. B – Barrow, L – Lower Shannon, F – Foyle, S – Shannon, N – Nith H – Othain( Fahan), D – Dergderg, T – Teith, C – Catt, Q – Cusrat M – Muinten, G – Gavel, NG – Graney, STR – Sruthair, R – Rye A – Aru, O – Eobul, U – Uissen, E – Erbus, I – Indiurnn
Fortress Ogham – This system equates the symbols with fortresses. B – Bruden, L – Liffy, F – Femen, S – Seolae, N – Nephin H – hOcha, D – Dinn Ríg, T – Tara, C – Cera, Q – Corann M – Meath, G – Gabur, NG – nGarman, STR – Streulae, R – Roigne A – Æ ( Cualand), O – Odba, U – Usney, E – Naven, I Islay
Bird Ogham – This system uses birds for the symbols. Question marks show translations that are unsure or not given. B – besan ( pheasant?), L – lachu ( duck), F – fælinn (gull), S – seg (hawk), N – næscu (snipe) H – hadaig (night raven), D – drone (wren), T – truith (starling), C ?, Q – querc (hen) M – mintan (titmouse), G – géis (swan), NG – ngéigh (goose), STR – stinólach (thrush), R – rócnat (small rook) A – aidhirccleóg (lapwing), O – odoroscrach (scrat?), U – uiseóg (lark), E– ela (swan), I – illait (eaglet?)
Color Ogham – This system uses colors for the symbols. B – bán (white), L – liath (grey), F – flann (red), S – sodath (fine- colored), N – necht (clear) H – huath (terrible), D – dub (black), T – temen (dark grey), C – cron (brown), Q – quiar (mouse- colored) M – mbracht (variegated), G – gorm (blue), NG – nglas (green), STR–sorcha (bright), R – ruadh (red) A – alad (piebald), O – odhur (dun), U – usgdha (resinous), E – erc (red), I – irfind (very white)
Church Ogham – This system uses the names of Irish churches for the symbols. B Bangor, L Liath, F Ferns, S Saigear, N – Noendruim H – hIrard (Cluain), D Durrow, T Terryglass, C Clonmacnois, Q –Kildare M Mugna, G ?, NG ?, STR Shrule, R – Rahen, A Armagh, O ?, U ?, E ?, I ?
Agricultural Ogham – This system uses agricultural implements for the symbols. Question marks show translations that are unsure or not given. B – biail (axe), L – loman (rope), F – fidba (hedge- bill), S – srathar (pack- saddle), N – nasc (ring) H – huartan (?), D – dabach (cask), T – tal (adze), C – carr (wagon), Q– cual (f*****) M – machad (?), G – gat (withe), NG – ngend (wedge), STR – sust (fl ail), R – rusc (basket) A – arathar (plough), O – ord (hammer), U – usca (heather- brush), E– epit (billhook), I – indeoin (anvil)
King Ogham – This system uses the names of the kings for the letters. We are only given 2 examples, Bran for B and Labride for L, and then it says to give the name of the king that begins with the letter."
There's a few more as well. According to Ellison these lists are to be found in The Scholar's Primer, and the version is he uses is the following: Calder, George (ed). Auraicept Na N- Éces: The Scholars Primer . Four Courts Press, Portland, OR. 1995. ISBN 1851821813. Ellison described it thus: "It is subtitled, ‘Being the texts of the ogham tract from the Book of Ballymote and the Yellow Book of Lecan’, and the text of the Trefhocul from the Book of Leinster. My edition is the 1995 reprint. The Primer (as I will refer to it) has the advantage of having the Irish on one page with the English translation on the facing page."
Hope this is helpful!
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aondeug
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Post by aondeug on Mar 20, 2015 19:47:36 GMT -6
Ooooh. Thank you. I will have to add this stuff to my notes.
Also I have been very fond of the dice. I am still not good at this whole using them thing and won't be for a long while. Something feels very right about dice though. Very.
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Post by Allec on Mar 20, 2015 20:29:58 GMT -6
I think those lists are found in The Ogham Tract, so I think it's probably as old as 1900s. Though how much older it is...I don't know. And how well it works is probably dependent on people.
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leithincluan
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Post by leithincluan on Mar 21, 2015 10:13:01 GMT -6
I'll have a look for the Poet's Ogam and Laurie's book too - sounds intriguing. I'd be interested to hear from leithincluan (and anyone else who wants to pipe up) - do you assign significance to the birds/animals/ etc that are corresponded with each few by virtue of starting with the same letter? (Ellison gives lists of these, as does Kelly — eg luis is associated with luch (mouse) and lacha (duck)) If you do view them as significant (eg the lore of the particular animal provides insights into the meaning of the few, as the trees are generally supposed to do) do you think this is a historical way of looking at it, or is it a modern way? I've always thought of those as mnemonic lists, rather than necessarily significant. I can see that they might work for some people (and I think Laurie uses some of those associations) - but for me it's just too many lists to remember and not things that I can personally engage with, if that makes any sense.
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