ryeduck
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Pronouns: he/his/him
Religion: TBD
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Post by ryeduck on Mar 24, 2015 7:28:56 GMT -6
In the past few weeks I have started my study of polytheism. I've gone through some research on polytheism in general, a little bit of Norse polytheism, and a good bit on Gaelic polytheism. There are some really good resources that I have come across, but I've noticed that everything is geared towards research. Book lists, articles, databases, resources, etc. This is all great and I understand that research is a critical component of polytheism, but I feel like it needs to be balanced with practice. I haven't found any kind of "how to start" guide that fills me with any confidence and I don't want to study for months on end without at least dipping my toes into the waters.
So I'd like to ask for myself and on behalf of everyone out there who doesn't really know what to do and are hesitant to begin, what is a simple and straightforward way for someone to start a practice in your particular tradition? What are some basic do's and don'ts? Are there any red flags or green lights to look for when starting out?
(Edit: Sorry if this sounds like I'm asking to be spoon-fed. I just have a personality of "if I have no clue what I'm doing, I'm probably not going to do it at all". Trying to work myself out of that...)
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Post by Intaier on Mar 24, 2015 8:28:32 GMT -6
There are some FAQs about starting practice in kemeticism.
Fortunately (for me personally) I haven't read them before I started doing something.
Why fortunately? May be because I enjoy that I walked big part of devotional path myself, and worked on a relationship, without being confused by someone else's thought about do's and don't's.
(However, I indeed had a good ground because I've been studying Ancient Egypt with highly scholarly approach, for many years. And of course religion was most interesting topic for me.) So, I knew how things were done in antiquity. I also knew that modern practicioners exist, but I did not read much of their resources. I started reading kemetic blogs only when I felt it's right time; and, by that time, I already formed basics for my own practice, and, what is more important, I had working devotional relationship where we with the Netjer both knew what we want out of it :)
But so, what were the very, very first steps?
First, which was very important for me: the acknowledgement of the God(s). It was a moment to acknowledge that the Netjeru are real, not mythological figures, disguised angels or demons, or archetypes and products of human mind.
Then, prayer. Just prayer, addressing them and speaking to them. Well, for long time all my prayers were directed primarily to Djehuty, - less often to other netjeru.
Much later (for me :), offerings. I started with incense. And the tea. (everyone knows Djehuty loves tea, right? I figured it myself :) And yes, research, of course. Never enough books about AE religion for me , anyway :)
But as I see now, prayer is the foundation of strong devotional relationship. It may be not very formal. Instead... it's important to have your heart honestly open. And not being afraid to talk with the Gods, about everything.
I didn't mention living in Maat, but for me it was always very natural, to want to "live in Maat" and be maa-heru while I'm on Earth.
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Mar 24, 2015 10:21:57 GMT -6
Things for Irish and I guess Gaelic polytheism. For me the way I started was to actually start making offerings. There are traditional foodstuffs that are offered and I started with milk. The first time was awkward of course. Prayers hadn't been worked out yet and I was nervous, but it was the start of something. It's ok to be rough when starting. Some things with offerings...I view them as important for contractual reasons because the Irish people agreed to give portions of their milk to the Tuatha dé Danann. And part of a sort of mutual trading things back and forth, or sharing I guess? That sort of thing is important to keep in mind when making offerings I feel. As is not demanding that the de ocus unde do things for you or show up. And groveling, begging, or being entirely "I AM NOT WORTHY OF ANYTHING" is a bad idea too in my opinion. They're better than you, sure, but have some pride in yourself. Just keep that pride checked and in place.
Some things about offerings. They aren't to be eaten or drank from most sources I've come across. With liquids you pour them out or let it evaporate. With solid foods you burn it, bury it, or drown it in a body of water. With burying animals will get to it but the basic idea is to keep beings in your family from consuming it. The toradh of the food is taken from it when its offered so it wouldn't be safe to eat on top of being rude.
Some common things to offer that are traditionally based in folklore and such from what I recall milk, butter, cheese, alcohol, potatoes, bread, and corn (not maize). Other things I've had good experience tea, coffee, finished dishes of food, meat raw or otherwise. Don't let the meat spoil if you use it.
Prayer wise I tend to go through a list of epithets and traits the particular god has. I try to mention these in thematic pairs or triples. After those comes "I honor you x and offer y in thanks". X being the god and y being the offering item. This isn't based in prayers found in the Carmina Gadelica like some prefer to work with, but it's very simple and appears to be fine. It also doesn't involve the strain of having to figure out how to repurpose and rebuild things from the Carmina Gadelica.
Don't offer metal things made of iron.
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Post by Allec on Mar 24, 2015 12:03:00 GMT -6
I think researching CAN be a beginning of a practice, but you're right. It isn't the end all. I think the best way to start is to read a book or website that explains some cultural norms and start with whatever is easiest to begin with. In most cases, it's prayer and perhaps an offering.
I'm really glad you brought this up because I actually want to develop a system to help people start their own polytheist practice.
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leithincluan
Junior Member
Posts: 85
Pronouns: she/her
Religion: Gaelic Polytheism and modern British druidry
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Post by leithincluan on Mar 24, 2015 12:34:22 GMT -6
I'm really glad you brought this up because I actually want to develop a system to help people start their own polytheist practice. I think that's a very good idea - although I'm not sure a system could be created that's applicable to all polytheisms, unless it was very non-specific. But there definitely isn't enough guidance on practice, as opposed to research, in a lot of polytheisms. When I started doing GP, I was told "All you need to do is read [this list of academic books], and everything will become clear." It didn't! I had to do a lot more than just reading about the history of the Celts for it to begin to become clearer to me. I still don't quite understand how a couple of my friends, who swear by academic research as the sole basis of all their practice, go about it. It's possible that I have a disability issue going on here - I need a clear set of rules to do anything, a 'do this' approach, at least to start with. Once I realised that I could base a beginning practice around offerings, it all started to become a bit clearer (although I'm still confused at times!) A guide to *where to start* is a great idea.
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Post by saintfelicity on Mar 24, 2015 19:58:46 GMT -6
TOTALLY understand this. I think the reason a lot of polytheisms don't have a sort of "where to start" guide is that a lot of these revival practices are pretty new. Which is exciting in that we get to be a part of developing new practices, but also discouraging because of the work it involves. I was definitely in the same boat as you of like, not really wanting to start if you don't know what step to take. I think there's a few things you can do, including poking around here to see what people are doing - I think you should definitely feel free to ask people why they're doing what they're doing, because even if maybe it isn't a religion you're necessarily interested in, it may give you a little bit of insight for how you might want to start doing something. Also, I find a usefulish way to approach research is rather than going at it as like ~let me absorb and memorize all these facts~ (because BLEGH), see if you can take a look more at what it's saying about the people you're studying. Do you see any common threads, maybe? Values that are important in a culture? Styles of art? That sort of thing. For example, honor was an important concept in old Gaelic societies because they were so community-based and reliant on each other. I use this idea as a sort of central pillar to my practice, and think about how I can apply it as an extension in every day life, even if maybe it isn't specifically exactly something that someone suggested as a practice. So things like, saying what I mean and meaning what I say, honesty, hospitality, I see embracing those as a part of my practice. The woo things are super fun, but there's certainly other aspects you can play around with too. And of course, always feel free to bounce ideas off of any of us!
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ryeduck
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Pronouns: he/his/him
Religion: TBD
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Post by ryeduck on Mar 24, 2015 20:48:09 GMT -6
Intaier and aondeug thanks so much for your replies. Well written both of you. I would like to ask though... both of your mentioned prayer and offering to deities. Any advice for which deities are good for a beginner to start with? If I'm not mistaken, aondeug, for Gaelic polytheism Brigid is usually easy to start building a relationship with and the Morrigan not as much? Also what about ancestor worship in your traditions? Do you pray and give offerings to them too?
Allec, you make a great point about research being a part of practice and saintfelicity your suggested approach to research is brilliant. Definitely need to take some time and evaluate my view of research to see if I can get away from "let me absorb and memorize all these facts". lol!
leithincluan, I think we feel the same way about having a basic practice to start with alongside research. I feel like it gives a "practical context" that will really help to make things clearer (hence why I started this thread). Seems like you can attest to that being the case, yes? =)
Thanks for all of your replies and I'm glad you guys feel like this is a topic worthy of discussion! =)
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Mar 24, 2015 21:45:44 GMT -6
I give offerings to my ancestors and I do try to think of them and feel a sort of. Gratefulness to them. It's because of people before us that we are where we are right now and while a lot of work needs to be done I do think I should feel grateful to them. That and I consider my studying of Irish history is important to that. So things like learning about the development of Christianity in Ireland aren't just important to honor the living community and the reality of the Irish culture, but it's also important because this was the history and culture of my ancestors. Some of them anyway, others were from like Mexico and Germany and the Ukraine. They also get mentioned in offerings of drinks when I am outside, thanks, general dedications, and so on. So things like "Thank you gods and ungods and ancestors".
And yeah Bríghid is an easy goddess to start offering things too. And an important one I think? Because of hearth and home and health. She feels important to those things. The Morrígan likes things just so from what I've experienced and heard. Personally I try to be very formal with all of them. I personally started with Lugh though. For personal reasons related to why I am studying things in the first place. He is very important because he came and was like "Hey. I see you are having trouble with things and really can't seem to work through it with this Buddhism thing. And have I got advice for you". This likely won't hold for everyone but.
Come on he's Lugh.
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Post by Mivi on Mar 25, 2015 1:10:59 GMT -6
In my tradition? Hmmm.
Start with ancestor veneration. This is already steeped in my culture, so it's likely not too much of a stretch. A picture of your ancestors, a white candle, and offerings (typically rice wine or soju and food). You're supposed to leave it for them at midnight because that's when the spirits walk around. I don't though, importance on specific times never worked for me. Revert the offerings after bowing and prayer.
DO: - Keep purity in mind at all times. You're not pure when you go up to the spirits, then you're begging them to bring shit down on you. This means no menstruation, no death in the home, no recent births. - NOTHING IS TOO GOOD FOR THE GODS. A lot of our gods have a tendency to (when speaking through a manshin) be like, "What's this measly offering, this isn't enough, who do you think I am" so we have to be like, "You shut your mouth and you'll take these offerings, look how sad and pathetic these people are that they need your help!" sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, people have to literally pay up. Bribe the descended god with money because they know it's going to the manshin and the manshin will use it to placate them in shrine. - Be very respectful (seems at odds with the typical banter that can happen at rituals, but it actually makes sense. When we're going back and forth with the spirits for being jerks, we're trying to protect and help our community, the ones hosting the ritual. outside of those rituals like when I'm just praying at a shrine doing 비손, I need to be very respectful)
DON'T: - .. the opposite of the above basically. idk I'll probably have to come back and edit this as I remember it.
Other things to start off with 무교: - set up a shrine. N-shrine works fine atm for 비손 and super simple 굿, since we typically use images instead of statues anyway. There's a lot of gods, so be prepared to set up a lot of shrines. Once a physical space is established, I'll have a lot of paintings up of my spirits on the wall above the shrine table, and on the shrine table, lots of offerings and tools.
it's a lot of prayer, supplication, offerings and asking the spirits to make our desire reality. I take a more 요술 approach in that I ALSO believe that the power to shift my own reality is within me.
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Post by Intaier on Mar 25, 2015 2:37:56 GMT -6
Intaier and aondeug thanks so much for your replies. Well written both of you. I would like to ask though... both of your mentioned prayer and offering to deities. Any advice for which deities are good for a beginner to start with? If I'm not mistaken, aondeug, for Gaelic polytheism Brigid is usually easy to start building a relationship with and the Morrigan not as much? Also what about ancestor worship in your traditions? Do you pray and give offerings to them too? Well, my advice would be... pray to the deity you feel drawn to. I don't know how it works for other people. But I didn't sit over the list of gods, trying to pick one who would be good to pray to. For me it was obvious and natural. I wanted to pray to the deity I felt drawn to, and there was really no doubt: "who else can I pray to, but him?" So... listen to your heart? It's the most important criteria. And, don't choose a deity just because they seem to be "easy to build a relationship". Choose the one you want to build the real relationship with. (it doesn't mean dedicating yourself to that deity for life instantly :) I remember all the "first times" I spoke up to egyptian Gods; first time, I said a couple of words to Anubis before his stela in Hermitage museum. I admired him, but this did not evolve into intense devotional relationship, however I know I always can rely on him as friend and protector and guide when I need *his* help. And next time, I got "caught" by Djehuty. Reading one of his most sacred texts, where, but the way, one of his most frightening sides is revealed. Despite that, I was caught defenceless and froze in admiration. And third time, just quietly said "Glory be to the Gods of Egypt" - to all pantheon as a whole. ... and, a bunch of years passed (from 1997 to 2005), until I decided to address the Gods again; it was a moment of "acknowledgement" of the world that is polytheistic. But it was natural for me to ask Djehuty, because he was my favoritest and I've been always drawn to him (and seems that he've been quietly around for long time). I don't worship ancestors, they are not Gods. But, in kemeticism, work with ancestors is "akhu veneration". * the forum glitched and ate a big part of the post; I will eventually re-type it
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Post by saintfelicity on Mar 25, 2015 5:26:13 GMT -6
Re: Gaelic polytheism, I actually can't recommend enough not starting with an offering to a specific deity, but giving an offering to the Three in general - that is, the Gods, spirits, and ancestors. Offering to a specific deity definitely isn't a bad or wrong way to start, a lot of people come to the religion that way (I did!), but I think if you have the opportunity to, offering to the general Three first is a much more low-pressure (and traditional!) way to go about things. This lets you start building relationships and an exchange of respect in a more low-key way and, I think, helps folks to feel comfortable taking a lot more time to learn and feel things out before gravitating towards one or a few deities specifically. There are some GP practitioners who never even "pick" specific deities, as it were. This is my personal method, but usually when I give an offering, it's to the Three in general with special "invitations" to Brigid, Flidais, and Goibniu. I have a "hearth" candle that I light first to welcome the Three, and then I work clockwise lighting candles I've specifically selected scent-wise for Goibniu, Flidias, and Brigid respectively. Then I give my offering to everyone (for me, that's usually hot cocoa and cookies, because I like to make offerings before I settle in for my routine of documentary-watching and art-making, it's very cozy!). I do honor them individually from time to time, but that's usually for special prayers and thanks. Or holidays, things like that.
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ryeduck
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Pronouns: he/his/him
Religion: TBD
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Post by ryeduck on Mar 25, 2015 6:07:40 GMT -6
Thanks for your replies everyone. Really interesting to see what everyone's basic practices are like. ...but I think if you have the opportunity to, offering to the general Three first is a much more low-pressure (and traditional!) way to go about things. This lets you start building relationships and an exchange of respect in a more low-key way and, I think, helps folks to feel comfortable taking a lot more time to learn and feel things out before gravitating towards one or a few deities specifically. There are some GP practitioners who never even "pick" specific deities, as it were. I think that this makes a lot of sense in any tradition, especially for someone completely new as it focuses on the bigger concepts and doesn't call down anything that's going to be too much to handle. Well, my advice would be... pray to the deity you feel drawn to. I don't know how it works for other people. But I didn't sit over the list of gods, trying to pick one who would be good to pray to. For me it was obvious and natural. I wanted to pray to the deity I felt drawn to, and there was really no doubt: "who else can I pray to, but him?" So... listen to your heart? It's the most important criteria. And, don't choose a deity just because they seem to be "easy to build a relationship". Choose the one you want to build the real relationship with. (it doesn't mean dedicating yourself to that deity for life instantly That's a fair assessment. Sometimes the heart knows more than the mind. You might like one deity on paper, but your actual relationship with that deity won't be exactly what you thought it would be.
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Post by Intaier on Mar 25, 2015 8:30:06 GMT -6
So, about the ancestors... you venerate them, but not worship them. You may say special prayers *for* them, so they will be blessed by the Netjeru and have wonderful afterlife. You may bring them offerings (as far as I know, the offerings made for the akhu, are not to be consumed). You may speak up to them... asking for guidance or help or just chat casually. Grave tending is an important thing. I'm lucky to know most of my genealogical tree up to 8th generation of grandparents, and they were all great people deserving respect. Sometimes, modern kemetics face problems if they had really problematic relatives and they don't want to deal with them at all. But, this is a thing to note that not every deceased relative becomes enlightened spirit (akh). And they need rememberance, offering and prayers *about* them, not prayers directed to them. So, in a kemetic context it's proper to pray about the deceased relatives, and make the "voice offering" formulae for them. And, it's also possible to venerate "ancestors as a whole" (in a generic way, especially for people who were adopted or don't know much of their family history). And, it's possible to venerate historical figures. And, it's possible to invite historical figures to become part of your spiritual "akhu" family. It's not just making occasional offering or saying a short prayer just if you are in the mood to do such a thing (this happens often too; you may pass by some tomb or stela and feel inclined to say a prayer for these ancient egyptians, especially because they are always asking for it!) . It;s possible to invite someone to be a part of your family, and then you start building a relationship with them too. You give them offerings regularly, and you treat them as if they were a part of your family by blood. If you have working godphone, they may sometimes come to chat :) It's very unique experience. Feeling of warmth, balance and real family, and the borders between world of the living and worlds of the akhu spirits, disappear :)
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Huri
Newbie
gone in the river
Posts: 36
Pronouns: They/Them
Religion: Gaelic Polytheist
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Post by Huri on Mar 25, 2015 9:38:29 GMT -6
Is it too late to get my thoughts in? Haha
The beginning of my practice was pretty weird and twisty, you kind of have to accept that when you first start out you might end up somewhere completely different then when you started. It's okay if you shift around a lot! You're finding what feels right and it's okay if that takes awhile. (This has been on my mind recently in relation to my experiences with gender but I think it applies here) Personally I felt pulled toward GP and the Morrigan, so I researched around and sent a "hey, what's up?" their way. A lot of people say they're hard to uh, get with (still trying to find that replacement for "works") but I turned out okay. Though maybe I don't know any better and was given the "put on a two wheeled bicycle and pushed down a gravely hill" introduction to polytheism thinking it was normal.
I would say that saintfelicity's idea of giving to the Three is a pretty good idea if you're thinking about GP. In a more broad sense you could make a traditional general offering for a pantheon and see their reaction or if any deities are interested in you.
Though now I'm wondering... There are articles about saying thanks but no thanks to a deity but I haven't seen any for if you find something's just not working out and want to end the relationship. I wonder if that happens?
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Post by Allec on Mar 25, 2015 14:50:05 GMT -6
That does happen, Huri! In general, one might say goodbye and maybe say they'll keep in touch, but that overall it's time to end the relationship.
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