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Post by Allec on Jul 15, 2015 15:20:16 GMT -6
What does Sacred Space mean to you? Do you have to create it, do you find it, is it everywhere? Doesn't exist? Kinda all of those? What are your thoughts?
There isn't a right answer as traditions and beliefs are going to vary wildly, but I think it'd be an interesting topic to explore in an infaith setting.
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wickedlittlecritta
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Post by wickedlittlecritta on Jul 15, 2015 16:55:55 GMT -6
Oh, if you want a really great though super heavy academic book on the...metaphysics, I suppose, of sacred space, Mircea Eliade's The Sacred and the Profane is really interesting.
Personally, in answer to your second question, yes. All of them. I think the sacred is one of those very wiggly things, so no two people are going to find it in the same place. So I guess the potential for sacred space is everywhere, but not every place is always a sacred space at all times, if that makes any sense? A cathedral and a forest and a city street have equal potential to be sacred, but not everyone is going to respond to them as such. Even more so with created space, since it's most likely going to be inherently more personal, especially if it's created by an individual for themselves. But I think the intent makes a huge difference with created spaces. Like, a church is created sacred space, but you walk into it and you know it's sacred. Somebody else might make a space just for them and not want anyone to recognize it.
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Post by Allec on Jul 15, 2015 20:53:12 GMT -6
"So I guess the potential for sacred space is everywhere, but not every place is always a sacred space at all times, if that makes any sense?" OOOH I love how you phrased that! Yes, completely agree  That's how I view sacred space too. I also like your point about intent. The intent of a created space definitely is important. I think it can also be created accidentally? But I have to play more with that idea. |
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callisto
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Post by callisto on Jul 15, 2015 22:14:11 GMT -6
What does Sacred Space mean to you? Do you have to create it, do you find it, is it everywhere? Doesn't exist? Kinda all of those? What are your thoughts? There isn't a right answer as traditions and beliefs are going to vary wildly, but I think it'd be an interesting topic to explore in an infaith setting. From a Hellenist perspective, sacred spaces can naturally occur as well as be created. Natural places associated with a god were often viewed as a divine dwelling place. Similarly a place selected or created for deity could be made sacred, as in the case of temples or home altars. |
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Post by kalen on Jul 16, 2015 23:44:20 GMT -6
From a Hellenist perspective, sacred spaces can naturally occur as well as be created. Natural places associated with a god were often viewed as a divine dwelling place. Similarly a place selected or created for deity could be made sacred, as in the case of temples or home altars. Great topic. Yes, to the above. I'm reading Klaus Schmidt's "Gobekli Tepe - a stone age sanctuary in south-eastern anatolia" which appears to have the intent of sacred space from around 9000 BC and before. That and Catal Hoyuk (also of framing reference) are, pre-hellenic, of course, but for some reason I'm on this prehistory kick this summer. Unsure of some of Schmidt's symbolic translations of the material, but fascinating use of animal engravings in monumental stone displays (set up like open air temenos originally). I like callisto's mention of natural places also, because I think that has the potential to go way back, even before the Aurignacian cultures. Whether caves or mountains (or caves in mountains), I think the naturally occurring places has the potential to connect sacred spaces back further than the artifact record somehow (burial locations perhaps.) With today's developments, I think one could argue for sacred space on online sites as well. That would be a potentially new kind of one, where people connect exploring the spiritual in community without it being necessarily a physical location. Looking back in history for an analogous perspective, the constellations tied to myths would likely have been viewed as sacred spaces for spiritual observances as well, though never visited per se. Another sacred space for the Greeks could be considered "the Land of the Hyperboreans" though no persons (except perhaps Heracles) had ever visited there. Do others think a space has to be physically tangible and visited, or can the intangible and never visited be a sacred space as well? |
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wickedlittlecritta
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Post by wickedlittlecritta on Jul 17, 2015 19:28:20 GMT -6
Do others think a space has to be physically tangible and visited, or can the intangible and never visited be a sacred space as well? Ooooh, good question. I think I'd have to venture that intangible/never visited spaces can be sacred as well. Like you said, corners of the internet are probably sacred (e-shrines come immediately to mind). I feel like there's a lot of potential for fictional sacred spaces too, but I'll need to think on that one more. |
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Post by saintfelicity on Jul 19, 2015 14:23:28 GMT -6
I like your thoughts kalen! Especially about the constellations, I'd never thought of them like that before but I completely agree. Critta's thoughts also echo my views, although a lot more coherently than how I would have put it, ha. As far as intangible sacred spaces, I'd add that I view my own internal headspace as sacred space. In taking care of my mental health and with my moods being unpredictable, having a "space" "carved out" in my brain allows me to draw back there when I need, without any physical materials or without people needing to know where I am. It's something I'm working on cultivating that gets a little stronger each time. |
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Searlait
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Post by Searlait on Jul 20, 2015 0:34:26 GMT -6
kalen I read a book where the author suggested creating sacred spaces/shrines in your mind, similar to what saintfelicity is talking about. I guess you'd need a pretty good mind's eye for that to work, but I guess it could also be like meditation. Your body may not be in a sacred space, but your spirit is? Could trance states be considered sacred spaces? Is this too New Age-y for the discussion? Haha. I think that intangible spaces can definitely be sacred, and unvisited places can be as well because the idea of it is sacred. But I don't think all sacred places are meant for us.
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Post by Allec on Jul 20, 2015 16:08:28 GMT -6
Talk Gobekli Tepe to me more, Kalen~<3 *loves that site* With today's developments, I think one could argue for sacred space on online sites as well. That would be a potentially new kind of one, where people connect exploring the spiritual in community without it being necessarily a physical location. Looking back in history for an analogous perspective, the constellations tied to myths would likely have been viewed as sacred spaces for spiritual observances as well, though never visited per se. That's a really interesting observation. Can you think of any examples of a website that may constitute as a sacred website? On your question, and on the other comments, I definitely think intangible spaces can be sacred. I definitely have a "mental place" that I try to cultivate as my own sacred space, though it's been ages since I've done any sort of meditation to get there. |
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Post by kalen on Jul 20, 2015 20:45:49 GMT -6
That's a really interesting observation. Can you think of any examples of a website that may constitute as a sacred website? On your question, and on the other comments, I definitely think intangible spaces can be sacred. I definitely have a "mental place" that I try to cultivate as my own sacred space, though it's been ages since I've done any sort of meditation to get there. Well, there are/were online shrines. This article on patheos ( www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Virtual-Veneration-Online-Shrines-Galina-Krasskova-04-13-2011.html ) from 2011 lists a few in the pagan sphere, although I think most are defunct now following some sort of snafu. But, there may be other current ones. I also at one time found the virtual candle lighting a helpful practice. While most aren't polytheist-oriented, there are a few general gratitude or meditation kinds. I feel those can create a sacred space online as well. UU, which I also belong to, has a youtube video of a candle lighting. (That personally doesn't do much for me, but looks like from comments and thumbs-up's that at least a few people appreciated it.) Actually, I think UU's CLF services and other forms of online rituals in realtime would count as well. Online, I doubt much would have a permanence quality to it, but maybe there is a way to balance that with a physical space of participant's choosing to kind of anchor that ongoing feel that I find helpful for sacred space-making to feel manifest. Not sure if others can relate to that? |
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cass
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Post by cass on Jul 21, 2015 3:30:28 GMT -6
I like your thoughts kalen! Especially about the constellations, I'd never thought of them like that before but I completely agree. Critta's thoughts also echo my views, although a lot more coherently than how I would have put it, ha. As far as intangible sacred spaces, I'd add that I view my own internal headspace as sacred space. In taking care of my mental health and with my moods being unpredictable, having a "space" "carved out" in my brain allows me to draw back there when I need, without any physical materials or without people needing to know where I am. It's something I'm working on cultivating that gets a little stronger each time. oooooo i love the idea of sacred mental space, though i have no idea if it's something i'd be able to manage. does it have a lot to do with visualization? though at least there's people here who are familiar with brainweird, so maybe this is a thing i need to remember to bring up elsewhere. as for virtual sacred space, that reminds me of the month i spent on second life years ago. people made sacred spaces all over on there. there was even a perpetual flame! part of me wants to go back and check out all that stuff again lol it was pretty neat |
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Post by saintfelicity on Jul 21, 2015 11:23:58 GMT -6
cass I guess it depends, hrmm. For me I think it's less about a detailed space in my mind's eye, and more about a mental... state? I think?... that I like to cultivate. It's more of being in a mood than like, say, a ... garden in my mind, or something. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS MAKING ANY SENSE LOL. My gut response for describing it was "a mood and a color." I don't know if that clarifies, or makes it more confusing. 
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Post by TheModernSouthernPolytheist on Jul 21, 2015 20:08:13 GMT -6
Oh, if you want a really great though super heavy academic book on the...metaphysics, I suppose, of sacred space, Mircea Eliade's The Sacred and the Profane is really interesting. Personally, in answer to your second question, yes. All of them. I think the sacred is one of those very wiggly things, so no two people are going to find it in the same place. So I guess the potential for sacred space is everywhere, but not every place is always a sacred space at all times, if that makes any sense? A cathedral and a forest and a city street have equal potential to be sacred, but not everyone is going to respond to them as such. Even more so with created space, since it's most likely going to be inherently more personal, especially if it's created by an individual for themselves. But I think the intent makes a huge difference with created spaces. Like, a church is created sacred space, but you walk into it and you know it's sacred. Somebody else might make a space just for them and not want anyone to recognize it. OMG, YES, Eliade!!! Read some of her in my Methods & Theory class last fall! But I totally agree. Sacred space for me is sometimes created, sometimes found. I've felt sacred space in churches, in the forest, on the beach. I've wandered into a place that just struck me and I've found places that I thought were beautiful and decided to *make* them sacred spaces. I think it all depends on the individual. |
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spiralthicket
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Post by spiralthicket on Jul 21, 2015 21:33:56 GMT -6
Great topic! to me, sacred space can be created or found. I feel like they are very much different. you could for say, have a sacred space in you mind, but it's different then from a sacred place made, and both are different then those already existing. I seriously love idea that everything has a potential to be sacred. That being said, I very much believe that some spaces are or can be stronger than others. I mean I love the sacred spaces I've created but I feel that it just wouldn't hold up to some of the sacred spaces I wish to visit. maybe it's the time that space has had to steep, perhaps it's on a layline, you get the idea. Although sacred space is something very important to me, it's an escape, a place of refuge and inspiration, a place for the mighty dead, beloved dead (or collectively The Mighty Beloved), spirits, and the gods. I can't tell you how many times I've found comfort and safety in sacred spaces. And a couple photos of my spaces. Because while some might find this taboo? I enjoy sharing these beautiful places.   |
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Searlait
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Post by Searlait on Jul 22, 2015 20:33:00 GMT -6
Thicket, I am in love with that arch.
Has anyone made specific pilgrimages to any sacred spaces, and did they feel different from the spaces you create?
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That's how I view sacred space too.
