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Post by myriadofcolors on Sept 24, 2015 6:14:28 GMT -6
I've been working with Brighid for a few months, and some days I'm definitely feeling a connection (or I'm not, I'm not sure. I guess that's the essence of faith, tbh.) I suppose my question I've been fretting over mostly is this: is it ok to not believe it's real? Does anyone else do this?
Lemme explain. Have you ever read a book or played a game where the gods are real and present, or even if they aren't present, their stories have a real emphasis on the people they are connected to, and on the world they live in? (Tamora Pierce's Tortall books, Skyrim, and His Fair Assassin books by R. L. LaFevers) For me, at least, I believe in them for that world, because I know that's how that world works, and it makes sense to me: The Goddess in Tortall is a protector of women, and so the women of that realm can expect safety in her temples. The way the gods work in books serve a worldbuilding function, as well as their own personalities. Because I know they don't "exist," I feel free to believe in them like I also believe in the characters of that realm. Alanna isn't "real," but she's real to me. Does that make sense?
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: can I believe in gods if I put them in a state of fiction first? I'm not saying they're not real, but I'm saying that I'm not sure I can believe in them unless I put myself at a suspension of disbelief. Is this totally, unbelievably rude to the gods, to everyone ever? Should I just work harder at believing, and not use fiction as a way of coping with the world? Does anyone else do this?
I'm sorry if I offend anyone!!!!
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Sept 24, 2015 14:44:48 GMT -6
I feel it's more than fine to wonder if it's real or not. Questioning one's beliefs and faith are something I view as being vital to religious practice. On top of helping you from getting caught in situations you don't want to be in just out of a feeling of obligation it helps strengthen one's faith I think. It can lead to a better understanding of it and also lead to one feeling more secure in their beliefs because it's been tested. And I don't think it's really rude to the deities in question.
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Post by Allec on Sept 24, 2015 14:47:46 GMT -6
I agree with Aondeug. And if it's rude to the deities in question, they'll let you know. But the way you approach faith and religion needs to work for you, and if that is how it works for you, then awesome
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Post by Banned User on Oct 1, 2015 11:59:14 GMT -6
If its fictional its fairly safe to say it isnt real. Unless that is you believe fiction is reality and your best friend is a six foot rabbit.
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Post by Allec on Oct 1, 2015 13:34:10 GMT -6
If its fictional its fairly safe to say it isnt real. Unless that is you believe fiction is reality and your best friend is a six foot rabbit. This post is rude and uncalled for. You are breaking rules #4 by rude towards myriadofcolors and breaking rule #5 by insulting their question. If you have nothing to contribute to the conversation other than demeaning language, then don't post.
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Post by Banned User on Oct 1, 2015 14:02:53 GMT -6
who says that believing in a six foot rabbit is rude?
If I choose to believe in a fictional 6ft rabbit then that is my prerogative as my belief no?
you have interpreted it as rude when it is not. I am posing a theosophical question albeit in a lighthearted way. the original poster said the gods were fictional.
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Post by Radha Ní Dhaimhín on Oct 1, 2015 14:17:19 GMT -6
who says that believing in a six foot rabbit is rude? If I choose to believe in a fictional 6ft rabbit then that is my prerogative as my belief no? you have interpreted it as rude when it is not. I am posing a theosophical question albeit in a lighthearted way. the original poster said the gods were fictional. To be fair, the way you posted it didn't come across as a lighthearted jape. It seemed much more critical and sarcastic. As a forum only allows readers to read your words and guess your intentions, perhaps alerting viewers that you only meant it in jest would alleviate some of the confusion?
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Post by Allec on Oct 1, 2015 14:26:08 GMT -6
who says that believing in a six foot rabbit is rude? If I choose to believe in a fictional 6ft rabbit then that is my prerogative as my belief no? you have interpreted it as rude when it is not. I am posing a theosophical question albeit in a lighthearted way. the original poster said the gods were fictional. To be fair, the way you posted it didn't come across as a lighthearted jape. It seemed much more critical and sarcastic. As a forum only allows readers to read your words and guess your intentions, perhaps alerting viewers that you only meant it in jest would alleviate some of the confusion? As I said on our private message gwyr, the ruling isn't up for debate on this forum. If you feel you aren't being treated fairly, talk to a different mod but my Mod Hat decision is final until another Mod intervenes.
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Post by Banned User on Oct 1, 2015 14:39:06 GMT -6
like a six foot rabbit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_(film)the premise refers to the validity or otherwise of a belief in fictional deities if those deities embody worthwhile aspects
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Post by Banned User on Oct 1, 2015 14:43:02 GMT -6
just sayin' like
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Post by Radha Ní Dhaimhín on Oct 1, 2015 15:22:05 GMT -6
I'm sorry, but I can't see what you're "sayin' like". The original post seemed to be about the way they relate to the gods - not thinking of them in terms of real beings, but as forces she naturally needs to suspend disbelief to understand. She even said, "I'm not saying they're not real." The only one saying they aren't real is you, by implying they're as fictional as the rabbit from Harvey. The way you have been stating your feelings makes it seem as if you were discussing Donny Darko, though - that they aren't "really" real. Perhaps if you expounded your point, we could all follow your line of thinking and thus more fairly decide your intentions. As it is, you've only left a few words in reply to this post. Your tone was addressed as it was perceived. And you rebutted, but without providing us enough of a base to found our opinions on. We would like to understand your line of reasoning.
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Post by Banned User on Oct 1, 2015 15:49:19 GMT -6
'The original post seemed to be about the way they relate to the gods - not thinking of them in terms of real beings, but as forces she naturally needs to suspend disbelief to understand.'
a 'force' not a 'being'
so a force without a consciousness. not a deity.
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Post by Radha Ní Dhaimhín on Oct 1, 2015 16:06:08 GMT -6
'The original post seemed to be about the way they relate to the gods - not thinking of them in terms of real beings, but as forces she naturally needs to suspend disbelief to understand.' a 'force' not a 'being' so a force without a consciousness. not a deity. Ooh, gosh, there isn't enough time to get into the wee-woo and metaphysics of that statement - only for a fully-developed argument, you understand. HOWEVER, dictionary.com defines force in the following ways: First definition. Dictionary.com also defines alive as: Now, I know it's taboo to include the word you're defining (in this case, "force," which I'd be happy to return to in a moment) with the word itself, but it's just such an interesting coincidence, my linguistically-inclined brain can't help itself. The part where they say existing is especially pertinent to this conversation; while deities may not meet the five biological definitions of "living" (acquiring and processing energy, being made up of cells, processing hereditary information, replicating, and evolving), we can most certainly make a well-educated argument that they exist as they are historically attested in Lore and literature. While there are many great definitions of force, including "the power to exert will over [something, somebody]" and "the power to persuade" - which I'm sure we can all argue for, as polytheists - the one that especially sticks with me is: I'm sure that's the one you were thinking of, besides the actual physics definition ("an influence on an object or system resulting in changes in that object or system, or the intensity of that influence"), but it doesn't say anything about being conscious-less. Animals and plants can act with force - as defined scientifically - and they most certainly have consciousness. Now, if you were an atheist who had no belief in things as deities or spirits (but then why would you be here? that would just be trolling and a goofy waste of your afternoon), you might argue that gods do not exist. But thankfully we are all blessed with a safe space full of spiritual people who at least believe that there is something out there "bigger than themselves." In this particular instance, we are discussing deities - and thus limiting ourselves to discussing that subject. Do deities have a consciousness? What about spirits? That, of course, is a theological debate that has been raging for some time now, but I think most people here would argue that in fact they do.
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Post by myriadofcolors on Oct 3, 2015 8:12:27 GMT -6
Oh no, I'm sorry. I didn't mean for any of this to happen. I'm sorry for offending anyone.
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Boggan
Newbie
Posts: 46
Pronouns: He/Him
Religion: Gaelic Polytheist
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Post by Boggan on Oct 3, 2015 10:46:52 GMT -6
Myriad, you didn't offend anyone. One poster's dismissive remarks are what was offensive, not your beliefs or your questions. So sorry if it made you feel that way!
To get back to your original post, I see nothing wrong with the way you handle such a call or belief at all! Those stories, any mythos really, and the connections we feel are so very important, regardless of where they might spring from and what inspires them. Putting them in such a relatable context to put them into perspective is an important method to connecting to said deity/spirit/whathaveyou. Your beliefs and how you approach them are paramount to everything else and if it works for you, then that's what matters.
And I actually can relate to this quite a bit! So thank you for showing me that I'm not alone in that approach and with questioning certain things. All my best.
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