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Post by awenyddogamulos on Jan 27, 2015 8:29:30 GMT -6
Our knowledge of Brythonic deities, their function, and their ranges is heavily obscured by the fact most written records are from the perspective of Roman and Greek writers, who applied our old enemy interpretatio romano to everything. There’s this really interesting article ("Interpretatio: Roman Word Power and the Celtic Gods", Brittania, Jane Webster, 1995) about how interpretatio romano has informed our entire way of thinking about the pre-Roman Britons. Brythonic deities were largely tribal in nature, closely tied to one area or group. A few were more generally recognized and worshiped – Toutatis, Sucellos, Gobannos, Taranis, Camulos, Brittania, Brigante, Rosmerta, Lugus/Lleu, etc. But there are over 300 distinct deities named in the Brythonic regions, so to produce a complete list would be exhausting if not impossible. Let’s use this as an opportunity to compile, instead, as much reliable information about those deities most commonly known or followed. We can add to this list as necessary, because gods know I’m leaving some out. And I’m doing alphabetically so no one gets upset, Brythonic / British Deities- Artio
- Belenus / Belenos
- Brigante / Brigantia
- Brittania
- Camulos
- Don
- Epona
- Gobannos / Govannon
- Lug / Lugus / Lleu
- Modron / Madron / Matres / Dia Matrona
- Maponos
- Rhiannon
- Rosmerta
- Sucellos
- Sul / Sulis
- Taranis
- Toutatis
The following paragraphs are entirely my own opinion formed through years of study and should be considered informed UPG at best. Welsh deities often appear distinct from their Cornish or Cumbric neighbours. I am of the opinion that this is really just a quirk of orthography. Because of the geographic inaccessibility of most of Wales, the Welsh language had retained its fierce independence and developed without a heavy influence from Latin or later Saxon and Norse. But if you’ve studied the languages, you know how often nasal mutation and soft mutation are utilized in the language, and how easily a commonly slurred word or name can be misspelled by an outside observer until it appears entirely differently. Lug and Lleu, for example. The final ‘g’ in Lug is actually a lenited ‘gh’ that’s pronounced more like the end of ‘though’ than the beginning of ‘ghost’. Easily, easily dropped in repition. Similarly, the initial ‘l’ is often lenited to ‘ll’ in Welsh – which produces an entirely un-English sound that’s a bit like saying ‘l’ with a mouth full of cottonballs. This happens after certain words or in the presence of vowels, or when changing case or gender. Gobannos and Govannon are the same case, but even more closely related. ‘b’ and ‘v’ are, again, lenited pairs. You can even see the similarity as you pronounce the two words – note where your tongue is in your mouth and how little change would need to happen in order to transform those two sounds. But at the same time, from a hard polytheist perspective, you have to balance orthography against the spectre of polyvalence. I can easily say that the Gaulish Lugus or British Lug is the same deity as the Welsh Lleu, but that doesn’t make him the same deity as the Gaelic Lugh. And it doesn’t make him the same person as the character of Llew Llaw Gyffes in the Mabinogion. So I guess what I’m trying to say is . . . let’s talk gods! I primarily worship Camulos, Lug, Artio, Gobannos, and a female deity who I have seen but whose identity I still don’t know – I call her Arglwydd Fawr. How about you?
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veritywhitethorn
Junior Member
Posts: 60
Pronouns: She/her
Religion: Celtic polytheist
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Post by veritywhitethorn on Feb 16, 2015 4:18:32 GMT -6
Do you consider Cerridwen, Taliesin, Blodeuwedd, Gwydion and Gwyn Ap Nudd to be part of this list of deities, or are they some other kind of mythologically powerful beings? These are the deities or beings I find myself primarily drawn to, but I am not quite sure how to categorise them—to me, they don't quite feel like my idea of 'gods' (not that I can really express this very clearly); they are different from us, certainly, but they feel...I don't know exactly, closer, perhaps than I expect from gods? I'm struggling to describe what I mean, and perhaps it doesn't really matter; maybe they absolutely are deities but I connect with them in some way so they don't feel as distant as other gods to do me...
At any rate, id love to hear your thoguhts, and to know what led you to the gods you primarily worship?
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Post by awenyddogamulos on Feb 20, 2015 8:39:05 GMT -6
YAY A QUESTION.
Unfortunately one for which I don't have a satisfying answer. Personally, to me, they are historical figures, people who really lived and died. But, given my understanding (and I think the "Celtic" understanding) of the Otherworld, that don't mean shit as to how much or how little interaction they could have with me or theoretically anyone. If I were to include them in my worship (and I have considered Gwydion, because I feel a special closeness with him) it would be more in the context of ancestor veneration. To get Catholic-y on you, it's the difference between venerating the saints and worshiping God.
To answer the second part of your question, when I was twelve years old I had a vision. I know, that sounds totally woo-y but I believe it wholeheartedly. I was at a Presbyterian Bible camp, it was sunset vespers at the outdoor chapel, and I saw Her. Sitting there on the split rail fence. Swinging her legs, bobbing to the music, just enjoying the joyful noise unto the Lord. She looked at me and she smiled this secret little smile. And even though I didn't see him, I knew - KNEW - in a visceral gut feeling that he was there too, but he was further back in the woods poking things with a stick because he Doesn't Have Time For This Shit.
I have never been able to put a name to the woman I saw there that day. Never. I've tried to turn her into Brigid, Cerridwen, Rhiannon, Don, I ran the whole gamut of mother and maiden goddesses and not a one of them is her. Which is why I simply call her Great Lady, Arglwydd Fawr.
Camulos I actually discovered by way of Stargate, which is why I resisted acknowledging him for so long. It was only a much later rewatch of Stargate that made me realise that the show had only given me a name for the god in the woods that day at camp. I gave in, and it has been an absolutely perfect match.
Artio I've known about for a long time, since my personal symbol has been the bear for much of my life. Then one day I suddenly had Feels about her. You know how you're on the computer or something and a cat will just come and sit on the keyboard. Not for pettings or food, but just so you know she's there and can't be ignored. That was Artio's presence in my life. She's old. Old as balls. And doesn't really give a fuck if I worship her or not.
Lug is actually the first deity I started worshipping in earnest when I embraced Celtic paganism. Why? I felt a kinship. I like working with my hands, I like being skillful. He has a kind of patient energy, more of a teacher. When I started my relationship with Camulos, he stepped back.
Gobannos I started to pray to when I got my new job. I work with metal now, supplying foundries and manufacturers with the raw metal they need.
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veritywhitethorn
Junior Member
Posts: 60
Pronouns: She/her
Religion: Celtic polytheist
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Post by veritywhitethorn on Feb 22, 2015 3:58:53 GMT -6
Wow, this is fantastic! So interesting to hear of your experiences—thank you for sharing!
I totally get you about the difference between saints and God—it could well be something similar. Could you elaborate, maybe—and sorry if I'm putting this clumsily, I really haven't talked about this stuff with anyone before—on why you see Cerridwen et al more as ancestor-type historical figures rather than deities (although I agree, it probably doesn't make much difference whether they're gods or were once human, if they want to interact with you, they probably up and will)?
Of course if it comes down to, 'I dunno that's just the kind of flavour I get from them,' that's totally fine—or if it's something where you know what you mean but it's really hard to put into words (isn't all of this stuff?!). But if there's more you can say about it I'd be really interested to read it, because at the moment I'm just trying to find frames of reference for what I'm doing...
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Post by awenyddogamulos on Feb 22, 2015 9:18:31 GMT -6
I've never really had to elaborate on it before, so this is good!
I think it's because genesis myths aren't part of Celtic cosmology - the gods weren't born or created, they're just here, deal wif it. But characters like Llew Llaw Gyffes and Gwydion and Branwen, they do have genesis myths. Or at least, even if the circumstances of their births aren't recorded, they have parents and children and are actual people.
I know that the Theoi are more like "actual people" in that they also have births and babies and wives, but the Celtic gods . . . not so much? Really? At least in my UPG and my research.
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atlene
Newbie
Posts: 6
Pronouns: She/Her
Religion: Brythonic-leaning
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Post by atlene on Apr 14, 2015 4:34:33 GMT -6
Currently I'm working through whether or not I believe Brigid and Brigantia are the same being/different sides to the same being, or completely separate entities. I feel like they are very similar, but I get a slightly more protective vibe from Brigantia for some reason, and I'm having a really hard time reaching out there. Also, most information I've found relating to Brigantia tends to conflate the two,
Has anyone here had any experience with Brigantia? Any info or UPG would be helpful! Also, what do you think of the Brigid/Brigantia thing? Do you see them as the same, similar, or completely different?
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leithincluan
Junior Member
Posts: 85
Pronouns: she/her
Religion: Gaelic Polytheism and modern British druidry
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Post by leithincluan on Apr 15, 2015 15:03:59 GMT -6
Currently I'm working through whether or not I believe Brigid and Brigantia are the same being/different sides to the same being, or completely separate entities. I feel like they are very similar, but I get a slightly more protective vibe from Brigantia for some reason, and I'm having a really hard time reaching out there. Also, most information I've found relating to Brigantia tends to conflate the two, Has anyone here had any experience with Brigantia? Any info or UPG would be helpful! Also, what do you think of the Brigid/Brigantia thing? Do you see them as the same, similar, or completely different? I'm working on the same question at the moment. I think they are 'the same but not', if that makes any sense at all. Spending time in different areas associated with Brigantia and Brighid has helped here - she feels different in each place, and I suspect she's strongly tied to the land and therefore emanates from it differently in different places. Brigantia feels much more warlike than Brighid (I agree with you about the protective thing), but still linked with home and hospitality too, through her patronage of particular tribes and lands. I also find Brigantia very direct and sometimes quite harsh, where Brighid is warm and welcoming. Brigantia seems very demanding, too, to me. I certainly don't think they're exactly the same, and I think they're over-conflated by modern Pagans.
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lorna
Newbie
Posts: 9
Religion: Brythonic Polytheist
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Post by lorna on Nov 11, 2015 12:57:11 GMT -6
Hello there, It's good to see there are other Brythonic polytheists out there as well as the folk I know from Dun Brython and The Druid Network I'm new to the forum and I'm primarily devoted to Gwyn ap Nudd, who I personally view as a Brythonic god rather than a historical figure, known during the Romano-Britsh period as Vindos ('white') and possibly Vindonnus ('white, clear light') and /or Vindoroicos; Creiddylad, (lover of Gwyn and his rival Gwythyr) who I believe was once an important goddess of fertilty and of Annwn in her own right; Nodens / Nudd - who I think are 'the same' figure but with different names and appearances in different places, I'm closest to him in dreamwork; Belisama, my local river goddess; Brigantia (more below); Epona-Rigantona - I worked with horses for a long time but am only starting get to known her as a goddess; very recently a local group of nine Matres who appear on a sandstone altar in a local church; Maponus was a fleeting presence in my life for a short period. Plus various other spirits of my local landscape. On Brigantia /Brigid - here on the West Pennine moors of Lancashire I see her as a warrior figure, protectress of the land and forger of souls connected with poetry, industry and industriousness. As we're both fiery in nature we've had a tendency sometimes to rub each other up the wrong way... Brigid and Bride I have experienced as softer, quieter, although still strong, and more connected with healing. I'd judge they're 'the same' goddess in essence who has become a variety of different figures appearing through different landscapes and different landscape features at different times.
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Post by cinder on Jul 29, 2016 14:22:40 GMT -6
This will be slightly rambly so please bare with me!
Anyway, I've been trying to find a religion that feels right for a while. I just started looking into Celtic Reconstructionism, and decide it's a good thing to look into. I had been asking any gods/goddesses who would like to contact me to do so in a dream.
Bunch of dreams (school and the like later), and one feels weird. Long story short, I look up possible gods/goddesses related to the most important part of the dream, and I get Cerridwen.
Even though you guys made really good points for not considering her a deity, and I asked for another sign for confirmation (one dream can just be brain gunk), I'm still enthralled by the thought that a figure of Celtic mythology could be welcoming me to the religion, so to speak. I've asked for similar things from both the Kemetic and Greek pantheons, and never got a good vibe from either, even with regular worship.
Sorry if I sound really lame, I'm new to this.
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Post by darren on Feb 18, 2017 4:43:38 GMT -6
Do people on here who call themselves *Brythonic* include Gaulish in that deescription? And how do deities from the Gaelic traditions overlap or fit in with this for you?
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