Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72 
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on May 30, 2015 16:46:10 GMT -6
Hey! I noticed this subforum doesn't have a General Discussion Thread, so I thought I'd create one. Since there are so few practitioners of East Asian Polytheism on this board as a whole, I thought it would be reasonable to include Japan in this thread, even though it has its own folder. So...who wants to start?  |
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Post by Mivi on Jun 17, 2015 18:32:17 GMT -6
I would love to discuss how chinese, Japanese and korean indigenous traditions differ and are similar. (Though maybe that would work in that other board lol)
For example, the many ways you would purify yourself. In mugyo, we would light pure incense at the shrine and wave it around your head three times in a clockwise fashion. We can also bathe ourselves in cold water (or just our hands/feet if necessary).
Compare and contrast the indigenous gods.
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Jun 19, 2015 6:04:14 GMT -6
Do you take off your shoes?
I've noticed that's a nearly universal practice, actually. In fact, it seems like Christians are the EXCEPTION in keeping their shoes on while they're in sacred space!
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Post by Mivi on Jun 19, 2015 17:19:37 GMT -6
I always take off my shoes, it's just something I grew up with in Korea and the us. I only don't take them off when in someone's home and they say it's okay to keep them on.
For my shrines, I take them off. Koreans in general take off their shoes for temples, though in some churches it will differ (I've been to korean churches that keep shoes on and korean churches that take shoes off. Depends on how into assimilation they are.)
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Jun 20, 2015 21:10:07 GMT -6
I *always* take my shoes off indoors. It's actually something my Grandmommy trained me to do as a kid. And I do mean "trained" haha! The raison d'etre of course was little kid = nasty shoes (I was a tomboy who spent a lot of time outdoors). But she so ingrained the inside = shoes off in me that only realized that it wasn't a universal rule when I reached my teens! Part of that is Aspie slowness, I guess, but removing one's shoes indoors just seems so...logical? I mean, what if you've stepped in something and didn't realize it?
That brings up cleanliness. You mentioned purification with incense? In Japan, the usual course is temizu (I'm guessing it would use the characters for "hand" and "water" - te and mizu. This is the ritualistic rinsing of the hands and mouth at a special pavilion, usually just inside the shrine gates.
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Jun 22, 2015 23:42:17 GMT -6
Keeping my shoes on inside seems very strange and I'm not really sure why I would. Like I might get something on stuff. Also if it was raining my socks are probably wet and I am just uncomfortable. And if it is hot then dear god I just need to get the shoes off to be comfortable. Shoes in a temple is also NO. It is the supreme NO. Shoes while giving food and such to monks is also NO. Even if outside it is NO. Stand on your shoes or on the ground next to them. No shoes.
Shoes is bad with sacred things.
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Jun 26, 2015 5:09:09 GMT -6
My mom will put hers on once she goes out to run errands and then...not take them off again? And my dad has leather clogs that he wears indoors.
I'm also curious about ritual cleanliness. Mivi, you mentioned purification by incense, and I believe I read that in native Korean tradition there is a concept of uncleanliness or pollution/defilement that sounds similar to what is found in Shinto?
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Post by Mivi on Jun 26, 2015 15:08:54 GMT -6
Probably. I know some people confuse Shinto with Shingyo (probably due to the pronounciation) but the traditions are mildly similar. Purification is absolutely necessary and to be impure means to attract ill luck and bad spirits.
Things that cause impurities:
- Menstruation (this is shared amongst a LOT of traditions, including Kemeticism an ATR)
- Death
- And simply not purifiying oneself often enough
There's probably a lot more that I'm not thinking of atm.
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Jul 1, 2015 4:00:22 GMT -6
In Shinto, blood of any kind is pollution, which is why animal and human sacrifice is only attested to in folktales. Illness and death were also pollution, and historically one could also just sort of..."catch" defilement through certain actions, such as even being near a corpse.
Women traditionally aren't supposed to go into shrines or temples when they're menstruating or too soon after they've given birth (Hells, traditionally many temples wouldn't allow women on the premises at all), but this prohibition is generally ignored today. Still, I don't like the idea of going to one of the more "conservative" kami's shrines while I have my period...
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Post by Mivi on Jul 1, 2015 20:33:14 GMT -6
That's funny, Mugyo accepts certain animal sacrifice! This is uncommon though. Typically the animal sacrifice will be bled out pre-ritual.
We can end up catching impurity as well, it's why after a birth, the area is warded off with special rope, chile peppers and white mulberry paper.
It's thought that if you attend a funeral, you'll bring home bad luck, so you must purify yourself before going back home.
Yeah, though I don't typically 'agree', I can still feel the spirits general vibes of "don't do ritual when menstruating".
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Jul 4, 2015 7:52:00 GMT -6
Oh yeah, definitely for me it's not about whether I "agree" or not! I mean, I honestly don't see the aversion to menstrual blood as "wrong" or anything. It just...is. And I mean, if blood is bad in the first place, then why would menstrual blood somehow be OK, given that it's decomposing blood? That's at least my experience...that with menstrual blood you get the double whammy of blood + dead/decomposing matter.
I've had a wide range of experiences with the kami. I mean, I met one who was initially neutral, but then turned hostile and attacked me. Another was just very up-front that he didn't want me sticking around in his shrine. He was basically like, "you're a tourist. Take some pictures and get lost" Both of those were once human beings. The former was a tenth century rebel warrior (which explains a LOT about what went down between us!) the latter was the first Tokugawa shogun, which ALSO explains a LOT. (He didn't really care for foreigners.)
But I've met others who are incredibly friendly even to foreigners like me. The Sanja-sama just...showed up and escorted me back to the hotel when I visited their shrine. I had no prior relationship with them. They were so incredibly warm and kind! And then there's Inari-sama and OF COURSE BENZAITEN-SAMA.
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