Sionnach Gorm
Newbie
Posts: 9 
Pronouns: He, Him, His,
Religion: Ar Dòigh-Beatha Ioma-Dhiadhach Ghàidhealach
|
Post by Sionnach Gorm on Jan 30, 2015 13:35:46 GMT -6
I response to the "Godphones 101" post:
---------------------------------------------
So, divination and upg? It seems needlessly complicated to develop a modern aphorism for one of the main theological underpinnings of polytheism, being that the gods are real, and you can communicate with them.
I can certainly see this used as a pejorative leveled against the sort of An Morrigan on my shoulder, style of folks who still require the comfort of an ever present deity. I may be misunderstanding the use of "direct" but would this basically be Lugh whispering in your ear or communicating to you through your cereal? Traditional, and ancient, forms of polytheism typically utilize(d) a variety of divinatory methods to interpret "messages" from the gods, in a ritualistic context, and usually with some functional interpreter. There are some rare instances where such things are reported to have happened, Pheidippides exchange with Pan, though conflating myth with history is fraught with peril.
I see this as yet another pervasive element of Protestantism which lingers because it is not recognized as such, being so insidiously a component of western culture. I have no doubt that there are folks who have had experiences where they come to the conclusion that a deity has spoken to them, but if we examine the sort of historic accounts and traditions, then when folks speak about "talking" with the gods, it is through the filter of ritual and divination. Just giving a shout out to An Dagda and expecting/ having him "shout back", you've walked headlong into a foundational theological doctrine of Protestantism: universal priesthood.
Now the manner, historic, social and cultural context in which modern forms of polytheistic religions have developed necessitate that a huge swath of polytheists will not have any sort of officiating clergy, and have to do everything on their own. This doesn't really make them clergy, though, as they need to be serving members of a community; the idea of a solitary priest(ess) is odd. Certainly the preponderance of solitary practitioners has necessitated that most modes of polytheistic religion are more akin with folk or lay religions, than with more formalized expressions, albeit there are many, many organized religious groups which hold to polytheistic theology and have established their own qualifications for clergy roles.
How many folks who post here believe they have a godphone?
|
|
|
|
Post by Allec on Jan 30, 2015 14:04:05 GMT -6
OKAY! Now that this is moved over and is less a direct reply to Jess' Godphone 101 post and more about the concepts of godphones, I have a slightly different reply: While certainly people use Godphone to refer to the idea a deity is on their shoulder, I've seen it shift over the years to be a more honest discussion on how people can interact with deity--very much in the way you describe. I think part of the problem is how people who have communications with deity will simplify it online. For example, an intense ritual and meditation that amounts a devotee to know that their deity wants them to offer fresh vegetables will often just be transcribed online as: "So my god told me they want me to get them fresh veggies!" Or will even be transcribed as a chat, eg: "Me: So deity, what can I do to make things better for you? Deity: Give me fresh vegetables! Stop being a slob! Me: Ah, okay @_@" These then are looked at by people who think, "Wow, that's how communicating with your god looks like?" This is because disclaimers aren't put up frequently enough, nor is the authentic experience discussed--either because the devotee feels it is too personal, or perhaps because the "lighter" version is more fun to say. Who knows? Though there is something to be said to how people have a hang-over from numerous types of monotheist upbringings that tell believers that God is always around. That is certainly something that Recovering Monotheists brought up once, though has yet to delve further into. (My bad!) And on the subject of clergy, there is definitely still the inclination to want some sort of clergy to interpret signs or even one's own "godphone." I see numerous 101 blogs get hit with asks about "Is such and such a sign from a deity?" And, if the 101 blogs are being honest, they respond with, "I don't know!" and that ignorance is because that moderators of the 101 blogs aren't clergy with experience in interpreting signs. Lastly, to answer your question, I wouldn't say I have some sort of "Godphone"--but I am getting better at being intuitive, reading omens if they should appear, and feeling a connection during a ritual. I'm hesitant to say I have a "godphone", though. Chiefly because of it's long history of being about how a god is sitting on my shoulders chatting 24/7...which is certainly not the case with me. |
|
|
|
Post by brimstonne on Jan 30, 2015 14:56:52 GMT -6
To me, a godphone is a sense. Its a vibe, its an energy. Its the feeling I get when I pray, and I know that I have done wrong. Its the feeling I get when something weird happens and I can hear the Morrigan cackling. It the dreams I have where she teaches me. Its the way it feels when I break down crying and praying to Lugh and I swear to the Gods he held me until I calmed down. There are people who have direct communication to their gods, and there are those who dont, neither one is better than the other.
To me, my godphone is a way to be connected to my gods. Its not a 24/7 thing, sometimes (a lot of the time) the feelings are fuzzy and I do have to break out divination techniques to figure out what it is they are saying. In my opinion, the Gods will stay with those who need them. For example, there are days where I need them more and they stay longer. I think that the way that each person communicates with their gods is as individual as the people are. Plus you have to remember that godphones dont only appear not only in ,GP but in several other religions.
|
|
ayaad
Newbie
Posts: 24 
Pronouns: she/her
Religion: Mormon pagan
|
Post by ayaad on Jan 30, 2015 18:04:47 GMT -6
While the term "godphone" is relatively new to me, the general concept of deity communication is pretty old and familiar. It's something that I've always been taught to cultivate. In my experience, it tends to take the form of long-building feelings. The most recent case occurred over a period of maybe three weeks. It can also take other forms (signs, sudden opportunities appearing out of nowhere, intense feelings that only last a moment, etc.), but this is the most common form. This isn't considered abnormal in my religion, and in most cases it's viewed as an intensely personal thing. While someone else can receive communications for you (if *and only if* they are in some position of authority over you, like a child's parent or the leader of a congregation), you're generally supposed to go and confirm it for yourself, rather than just take their word for it.
|
|
Sionnach Gorm
Newbie
Posts: 9
Pronouns: He, Him, His,
Religion: Ar Dòigh-Beatha Ioma-Dhiadhach Ghàidhealach
|
Post by Sionnach Gorm on Jan 31, 2015 10:07:24 GMT -6
Ah, I had posted a reply but it was eaten.
I made a distinction between "godphone" and divination, because in the 101 post divination was listed under "What to do if you don't have a godphone"?. If divination is part and parcel of what is godphone than this changes some things. I.e. it seemed like godphone was from An Morrigan's lips to your ear, without any intermediate or divination required, very much like the "god spoke to me" manner of Protestantism.
I think that necessity has made "priests" of a lot of polytheists who are doing it on their own, but the influence of the Protestant concept of "universal priesthood" is significant, particularly in places like the US and Canada.
|
|
|
|
Post by Allec on Jan 31, 2015 11:51:35 GMT -6
Well, divination is under having a godphone. Sometimes a godphone is literally hearing An Morrigan directly with words--though that's definitely rarer to the point that even if someone experiences it, it's not daily.
But "hearing" in the way of intuition and "gut feelings" also falls under godphones--and is typically what people mean.
|
|
|
|
Post by devo on Feb 7, 2015 19:54:23 GMT -6
I honestly can't stand the term "god phone". I feel that generally speaking, its a misleading term that makes the conversation steer in ways I don't feel are overly productive. I'd rather talk about different methods of communication than have to deal with a sort of "us and them" pecking order btwn those who "have a godphone" and "those who don't". I guess I feel like the term ends up becoming too binary, too black and white when the whole notion of communication with the Unseen is rather grey, and not very hard cut in any way shape or form. I see mention of clergy in the OP, and I would like to touch on that, too. Not all clergy are here to serve the people. In a Kemetic sense, clergy doesn't need a "godphone" and they don't need to work for the community. While it's difficult, it is very possible to be a solitary priest in the most traditional sense for Kemeticism because a priest is really nothing more than a ritualist. So if you do the rituals, technically you're a priest. Regardless of your "godphone" skills. However, there does seem to be some sort of idea in the Pagan community at large that clergy = must have god phone. But in Kemeticism's case, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Just in case it's useful, I do have a list of posts that deal with deity communication. I technically fall very much into the "I have a godphone" territory. And mine is probably much clearer than a lot of people's. However, because I do serve my community first and foremost, I have made sure to attempt to write for people who have minimal communication abilities (as I lived with no ability to communicate with the Unseen for many years). And for people who don't have patron gods, either, as both groups are underrepresented in the Pagan community at large. All in all, I'd love to dismantle the godphone phenomenon. I get really upset when I see people beating themselves up, thinking they're failures because they can't "talk with their gods how XYZ big name does". I think the sooner we can get into "let's discuss communication as a whole", the better off we'll be. I think I went on a slight tangenty rant thing there. Sorry >.>;;; -Devo |
|
|
|
Post by Intaier on May 28, 2016 1:10:12 GMT -6
The term "Godphone" is okay for me. It's just funny term for a phenomena that can happen: ability to have quite clear communication with deities (and/or spitits, if applicable).
It may come in many forms. Sometimes it's hearing voice, sometimes it's seeing signs and chains of events, and also intense emotional flow...
My godphone is "soundless". It's more like you would describe a telepathy, when an "outside" chunk of information interrupts your own flow of thoughts and it may come together with other signs of Deity presence and close attention.
Sometimes these are just tiny bits of thoughts. Sometimes, these "godphone chats" may be quite long. My godphone "line" is reserved for Djehuty and the Akhu, but Djehuty from time to time lets other Netjeru to pick the phone and say something too. However it doesn't happen often; if another Netjer may want to send me a message, they usually approach Djehuty first :)
Sometimes godphoning can be a disaster :) when a deity would insist that you deliver their message, and your brain is messy and confused, this can end as big failure. I say this from my own experience, - not with Djehuty, though.
From the time of this epic failure I usually try to be very quiet and shy about everything I may "hear" through the godphone.
I disagree with this. Both from historical and modern perspective, kemetic priests are not limited to being ritualists; ALSO it's possible to be a priest who is not a ritualist.
And it's not "just doing rituals" makes you a priest. Doing rituals means you are doing rituals, and "take the priest hat on". Yes, any "layperson" doing the ritual, takes the "priest hat on", but don't take it as a full-time job/dedication.
* in AE, I know they were organized in phylae and so technically many were working "part-time". Being a member of priestly phylae [in AE] anyway IS a "priest hat" that you have and wear not when you want, but when the Temple calls you to the service .
And so, there were many different ranks. There were things that only priests of certain ranks were allowed to do. There were things only priests of certain Deities were primarily involved in. Not everyone who was wab or it Netjer, was also Hem-Netjer. Not all clergy-women were chantresses and dancers.
There were (and are) many ways inside the wonderful world of AE priesthood. And so, there are many callings. Being a ritualist is just one of them.
And, in my steady belief, it's not your "doing rituals" makes you a priest. It's a Netjer who makes you a priest/accepts your service. [this is why in modern times we do not need "community approval" if your priesthood is independent]. And even more: It's the Netjer and you, together, - working on making you a priest.
It's dedication, and question of priorities (such as "putting the Community first" for Devo; for a priest, it's usually "Putting Netjer's will first").
But I agree that having a godphone is by no way a necessity :) I don't think many AE priests had "godphones".
More often, they were communication with the Netjeru through dreams, or clear visions. Different kinds of divination, too.
Godphone is... just a thing that may happen with you :)
|
|
