Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Mar 22, 2015 7:03:43 GMT -6
So...I mentioned in my intro post that I wasn't going to reveal who my goddess was. She wants to be named here eventually, but first she wants me to address something that's been bothering me.
How do I sort out what I'm doing from being culturally appropriative? My goddess is pretty much Pan-Asian. She's found in cultures from India to Japan. I focus mainly on her Japanese face, so to speak. I've googled her name and seen her described on pagan blogs in ways that make me grind my teeth and go "ASK A JAPANESE PERSON WHAT SHE IS." Or really, maybe they should just read a history book, instead of those pop-mythology books at Barnes & Noble that describe her myths inaccurately for a Western audience.
So...that's it. I know there's a difference, since she pretty much called me, but She wants me to find something better to smack my brainweasels with.
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Mar 22, 2015 11:20:02 GMT -6
This is a thing I understand very well. I spent four years of my life identifying as Buddhist, and I've never quite gotten over the worries about being appropriative. It's part of why I spent time talking about problems that I felt the Western Buddhists had, and why I spend time trying to explain things to people. I feel a sort of obligation to try and make up for all the shit that others do.
One thing that helped me was being part of a temple community. I had a wat I went to and I helped out. I went there weekly for meditation class and on festival days I was one of the people in a temple shirt helping out with the booths. I was part of the temple fabric, and to the point where when my attendance grew rarer people became worried and curious.
You end up learning the customs of a particular culture. I was taught how to do things, like how to offer water properly or how to wai. Bits of Thai were taught to me so at the very least I could greet, thank, and apologize to people properly. It's coming from the source so to speak, and I was part of the community. Not Thai but definitely a very Thai sort of Buddhist. And when I get down on myself I can snap back and remind myself that, yes, while I do likely have problems here and there there are these people who I have become a part of.
I would suggest you read academic texts as well. Look into the history of the culture she's from, or cultures I suppose. You can focus more specifically on a particular culture. Look into the culture of the people as they stand now. Start learning bits of the language. Get a sense of who the people who honor her really are, and where she really originates from. And really, really listen to people. And if she comes from a particular religion begin studying that religion. And I'll say that while there is a definite use for academic texts about, say, Buddhism as in my case I do think that it is best to first consult the canonical texts. Then to consult texts and talks from practitioners of the religion and most especially the authority figures of said religion.
So with Buddhism the order of texts to take serious from most serious to least are The Tipitaka > The Pali Commentaries > The Mahayana Canons > Commentaries on the Mahayana Canons > Talks and books of monks and especially from the specific branch you are working with > Collections of folk tales > Other folklore and custom related primary sources if you can find them > Academic sources from the West and the East > Anything written for a casual audience in the East > Anything written for a casual audience in the West. Because I'm a brat and extremely distasteful of a lot of Western takes on Buddhism, and especially the more lax sorts I would say pay shit we write for casual audiences no mind. Turn to our academia or the talks of our monks in specific traditions and that's it. The Venerable Thanissaro Bhikkhu is a great man for example.
Do something like that with the tradition your goddess is related to.
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Mar 22, 2015 13:39:15 GMT -6
Well...I have. I just can't shut the brainweasels up.
I've got a bachelor's degree in East Asian History. I've been to Japan. I speak Japanese. I'm taking the Precepts for laypeople on the 29th at a Gelug Dharma center. I've read the sutras (but please be careful saying one should take the Mahayana sutras less seriously; most Buddhist traditions are in fact Mahayanist and their followers would disagree with you.) I've read academic texts, I've studied the histories of Hinduism and Buddhism and Shinto. I *am* a Buddhist. I am *serious* about my Buddhism.
But then I see what other people in my socioeconomic class do to the traditions my goddess is in and I want to hold up a sign that says I'M NOT WITH THEM. I've tried calling people out on it, but I have no stomach for arguments. I get triggered very easily. I get upset. I cry, and I feel like I'm back in middle school surrounded by assholes who just want to upset me.
So what do I do?
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Mar 22, 2015 13:53:19 GMT -6
Ahhhhh. The reason I put the Mahayana suttas where they are is because I was very specifically of a Theravadan tradition. I meant it in a personal matter, as opposed to something everyone should do. It was meant to be an example of how I do shit. Because examples of how others do things sometimes help you work things out basically. A model basically or an idea. Less something specifically to go with right down to minutia. I accept that for others the Mahayana canons are more important or equal importance. For myself personally the Pali works were and are primary. Apologies there should have been more clear.
And sadly I've never been able to shut them up. The brain weasels as you've called them. The things I did help, but they never shut things up entirely. There's always worry.
But I did not stop. Perseverance is hard. But really I think in a way it's all I can and could manage? This sort of thing is where I find meditation really helpful, honestly. Especially in the being able to break down the why of things and just kind of. Stand back and look at it.
It doesn't stop it from happening but it did help shut things up.
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Redfaery
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Religion: Buddhist Polytheism
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Post by Redfaery on Mar 22, 2015 14:21:34 GMT -6
Thanks. I know I'm going about it as sensitively as can be expected of someone with my privileges (whiteness and affluence). I often want to inform others like me that their information is incorrect, but I'm afraid to. For example, My Lady is *not* a "goddess of love" - at least not like Aphrodite or Venus. Yet I keep seeing that information popping up on blogs and whatnot, written by non-Japanese. I also see the search terms "Japanese moon goddess" pop up in my googling suggestions. Here's a hint: the lunar kami is MALE...and his SISTER is the sun. I *know* I'm different from the folk drawing Amaterasu (not my goddess, FYI) with huge anime boobs. And I want to tell them, "you know there are people who worship her, right?" But that little brainweasel just accuses me of trying to be a white savior, so to speak. It's like I doubt my own intentions...I know I'm not doing it to prove anything. It's just that I hold the images of my goddess and the cultures she comes from to be sacred. Eeuurgh. Thanks for letting me rant. I feel better now.
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aondeug
Full Member
Posts: 141
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers, He/Him/His
Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Mar 22, 2015 14:33:31 GMT -6
That's good. That you feel better. It's hard as hell, but it's rewarding to stick with it.
Gotta wage war on reality. Gotta go radically beyond.
Or I did. I don't know if I will go back. I don't really know what exactly it is I really want. That is what needs figuring out for me. Religion is hard. Life is hard. IS THIS DUKKHA? Probably. Definitely.
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Post by Mivi on Mar 25, 2015 2:08:12 GMT -6
Well...I have. I just can't shut the brainweasels up. I've got a bachelor's degree in East Asian History. I've been to Japan. I speak Japanese. I'm taking the Precepts for laypeople on the 29th at a Gelug Dharma center. I've read the sutras (but please be careful saying one should take the Mahayana sutras less seriously; most Buddhist traditions are in fact Mahayanist and their followers would disagree with you.) I've read academic texts, I've studied the histories of Hinduism and Buddhism and Shinto. I *am* a Buddhist. I am *serious* about my Buddhism. But then I see what other people in my socioeconomic class do to the traditions my goddess is in and I want to hold up a sign that says I'M NOT WITH THEM. I've tried calling people out on it, but I have no stomach for arguments. I get triggered very easily. I get upset. I cry, and I feel like I'm back in middle school surrounded by assholes who just want to upset me. So what do I do? You're going through official temples, you're respectfully learning the culture, and you're making sure to stay as accurate as possible when talking about her to non-Japanese. You don't need to worry about cultural appropriation, because you're going through all the appropriate channels. In regards to those people, it gets easier the more you do it (bringing up how they're wrong about X and why). But if you don't have the spoons, then you don't. I can't really hold a grudge against you for that, some people just cannot deal with confrontation and I'm not going to try to force people into those situations when it's not good for their mental and emotional well-being. Have you perhaps thought of instead spreading accurate info about her through pamphlets, blogs and social media? This way you're still spreading accurate info and you can cut off the people who try to argue with you?
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