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Post by Intaier on Mar 25, 2015 2:45:03 GMT -6
(I don't want to thing that more than 20 years of life were a waste :) There were many good things I got from the religion I've been in, during these years. This is important part of who I am now.)
Heaven, Love, Presence
The depictions of AE afterlife and "paradise" always spoke to me well. I remember the papyrus painting of the fields of Aaru in Hermitage museum. I always looked at it as at something very important and really "calling". I got a thought today - "if you draw your image of afterlife on a papyrus and three thousands years later, someone looks at this image and says "oh, I want this afterlife", then probably your life wasn't spent in vain. You got to deliver important religious message :)
Most of all, though, I'm afraid of becoming weak and giving up to old christian fears: fears of hell and the indoctrinated "you must only follow One True Religion (which is the particular christian denomination, especially russian Orthodox) thing. It's interesting though that in general, from the beginning, christian afterlife (*as depicted by russian Orthodox church), was never REALLY speaking to me well. Christian heaven was just "a place you must desire; otherwise, you would be in hell". This is wrong motivation. The first real reason for me about christian heaven was to meet st.Dominic, who always was my friend. (The thing to note: most of my fears of hell were indoctrinated not by Catholic Church, but by russian Orthodox church. Catholicism was a liberation in many ways.) There was a moment, though, when Catholicism had become "not enough" for me, because it's strictly against polytheism, and my views of the Universe changed after the real experience with the Netjeru as living and independent beings, - not archetypes or allegories.
It's interesting that paintings of my favorite artist of early renaissance, fra Angelico, taught me about real meaning of what Heaven really is. It was not about fancy party up in the sky above the clouds with saints and angels. The most touching paintings of his have shown st.Dominic or other dominicans, adoring scenes from the Gospels. Such as st.Dominic quietly watching the mourning of Christ in the tomb. Or, st.Dominic and st.Thomas being near Christ in the moment of resurrection. This was the Presence-in-Mysteries, above the earthly time lines. This resonated with me: saints focusing on the communion with the Divine. Just "being near", just "let me adore your beauty". They only wanted to spend their eternity near to the God they loved. This was the same thing I saw in egyptian papyri with fields of Aaru. People "in presence" of the Gods. People wanting to spend their eternity together with them. In one book about egyptian stelae in Pushkin museum in Moscow, I saw many very touching prayers, which were more profound and touching that some dull and dusty prescribed prayers from Orthodox tradition. It was both shocking and fascinating that these people directed their words, coming from their hearts "oh how much I want to observe your beauty every day! How much my soul longs for you" to the intimidating figures with animal heads :) This is, how both catholic saints and ancient egyptians were teaching me how to love God(s).
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Post by Intaier on Apr 1, 2015 17:57:22 GMT -6
From my older blog post
I don’t truly know how to make catholicism and polytheism work together. Probably the “official” church will consider us heretics or apostates anyway. For personal belief, it works. It’s hard to resign from acknowledging the ancient Gods if you have experienced them and want to “have them around” and give them honor. For me, being in a church, fortunately is not a family issue; I have no living relatives to struggle with about that. Friends are understanding and they respect my choices in religion, whatever they might be. But it’s about my personal faith and understanding “how the things work” in the universe. It’s a desperate wish not to suffer in hell just for holding somewhat wrong beliefs. This christian mindset, fear of hell punishment not for your actions, but just for your beliefs (if they turn out to be non-mainstream and heretical), is probably the main trouble.
Some good christian may say “But why do you need to honor/work with “pagan gods” even if they exist? Christ is the only one you must love as a road for our salvation”. This is question of personal experience too. This thing “Look how much Jesus suffered for us, He loves you so you must love Him” doesn’t truly work. Being in Christian church (first in Russian Orthodox, then in Catholic) i never had truly personal love feelings to Jesus. There were respect and compassion, prayers and feels of gratitude. But no feelings of God as my “close friend”. I studied the dogmas and heresies for many years. I hardened the basics of my christian beliefs around the Nycene Creed. It is the core. Anything else, such as position of the Catholic Church about LGBTQ+ issues or divorce, are not principal pillars of faith. The Creed does not say that there are no other gods. It’s not like ten commandments. It explains the mystery of the Trinity (Father-Son-Holy Spirit), Christ’s incarnation and resurrection.
Gnostic texts are sometimes very messy and dark ones. Instead of clearing things, they make them ever more confusing, and probably might lead one away from good relationships with God and Gods. So our one difference: Gnosticism never works for me. Hermeticism, however, does. For me, accepting the model of universe as it’s described in Corpus Hermeticum, and sharing the hermetic philosophy & viewpoints, right now is the best way to make my Catholic-rooted faith and living experience of working with Netjer to “work together”. Even if hardcore catholics will call me apostate “for polytheism”, it’s better than nothing. My beliefs are gradually coming into harmony, and it’s better to have peace in heart, than immense fear of hell. May be this is a path not for everyone. Millions of catholics are okay with not having “pagan deities” in their lives. But if I feel called, I want to respond to the call. The divine hierarchy works for me. Just recently we were chatting about these issues with one of my good friends, who is a freemason. (S)he expressed the understanding of the “supreme architect of the Universe” under the name of the egyptian Atum. And it corresponds with my understanding too. The names for the supreme creator may just be different. I sometimes refer to Him as “Netjer-Netjeru”, the formula from one egyptian offering table. “God of Gods”. We may understand Him as the divine triad of Atum-Ptah-Ra working together (probably I will post a quote from memphite Cosmogony soon; I like it very much). We may see the same God manifesting Himself in the revelation of Divine Pymander for Hermes Trismegistus (here I mean the human author of the hermetic texts, and not the god Thoth-Hermes). (Old Testament is more controversial indeed, and it’s intended for jewish people, so I’d leave this aside).
So… I don’t fit into strict frames of current catholic dogma already. I hold the faith in God, who has many names. And I honor the Netjeru who are separate divine beings with their own free will; and sometimes they can me “syncretized” one with other. Divine things work in more complicated ways than we sometimes can understand. The ancients knew better how syncretism works. I continue my path for knowledge, and hopefully fulfilling my vocation…
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Post by Allec on Apr 2, 2015 19:22:05 GMT -6
I like that you made this thread, Intaier. I think it's important not to through the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak For me, I am not trying to reconcile the religious beliefs of Catholicism with polytheism but instead reconcile the Catholic traditions I grew up with while not having the religious beliefs. I figured out, though, that I can take the secular parts of Catholic celebrations that mean a lot to me and just have them be family customs. This is what I did with Christmas--I call it now "Giftmas" officially and celebrate giving gifts, having a tree, and all the festive stuff that is really much a part of my cultural heritage...even if it doesn't have any real religious significance to me anymore.
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wiintertides
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Post by wiintertides on Apr 2, 2015 19:36:41 GMT -6
I think some of the good things I learned from my monotheistic heritage is I learned how to build my own practice and how to do research on what I learned instead of just accepting it. It taught me that not everyone has the same religious experiences, so while I'm definitely jealous of some people's experiences, I know I will have my own and that they will be different. It also showed me that the gods will not answer my every prayer. I was only a monotheist for about 4 years but it had a significant impact on my life for sure.
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aondeug
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Post by aondeug on Apr 2, 2015 23:20:28 GMT -6
Wasn't really raised religiously by my parents though I was treated as a sort of adopted daughter by a Catholic family for a few years before I moved from LA. Catholics are honestly some of my favorite people in the entire world. I've known two Catholic families that have treated me very kindly and my best friend who is Catholic is just a wonderful man. He's part of why I'm even doing what I am religiously.
What I got out of this was a sense of comfort. Though said comfort was only really related to the Virgin Mary. God seemed far too distant and far off for me. And just strange. Mary though. Mary calms me down. I know that I probably shouldn't but Hail Maries are one of my only ways to combat my panic attacks.
If I'm wrong and everything I believe is wrong. I want the Catholics to be right. Just so the Virgin Mary can be around mothering about.
Which is another reason I will not be Catholic ever and would actually be the worst Catholic.
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Redfaery
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Post by Redfaery on Apr 2, 2015 23:47:32 GMT -6
Wasn't really raised religiously by my parents though I was treated as a sort of adopted daughter by a Catholic family for a few years before I moved from LA. Catholics are honestly some of my favorite people in the entire world. I've known two Catholic families that have treated me very kindly and my best friend who is Catholic is just a wonderful man. He's part of why I'm even doing what I am religiously. What I got out of this was a sense of comfort. Though said comfort was only really related to the Virgin Mary. God seemed far too distant and far off for me. And just strange. Mary though. Mary calms me down. I know that I probably shouldn't but Hail Maries are one of my only ways to combat my panic attacks. If I'm wrong and everything I believe is wrong. I want the Catholics to be right. Just so the Virgin Mary can be around mothering about. Which is another reason I will not be Catholic ever and would actually be the worst Catholic. Heh... I was raised Catholic and God was always so distant from me. When I prayed, it was like talking into a dead phone. But the Virgin? Yeah. She still comes around sometimes when I'm stressed out, just to comfort me. And my patron saint, oddly enough. I have *great* relationships with them. They're quite awesome. And very cool with the fact that I'm no longer Catholic, oddly enough.
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leithincluan
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Post by leithincluan on Apr 3, 2015 8:24:39 GMT -6
I don't think I could break away from most of my Christian background* if I wanted to. Which I don't, entirely - I continue to have some interactions with Christianity (which I don't tend to go into in Pagan/polytheist settings), and even if I didn't, I'd still live in a culturally Christian country. (Which is a very different type of 'culturally Christian' from the US.) Things I learnt from my Christian (mystical Anglo-Catholic with a Gnostic bent) spirituality: - Meditation, spiritual journeying/visualisation, and even a kind of manifestation that wasn't that far off the magic I do today - Praying the rosary, which led me to prayer beads and other creative ways of praying and doing small-scale ritual - Working with saints, which helped when I was creating shrines my deities, and also taught me to relate to spirits as individuals. Relatedly, a great relationship with Mary, which is why I quite often pop into churches (as long as they have a statue of her) to light a candle to her - she's one of the points of focus of my interfaith work, along with Brighid - The high honour and respect due to deities (which is strongly emphasised in Anglo-Catholicism, with its ritual and embodied respect for its deity) - The importance of honouring ancestors (again, comes through saint-honouring, which remains important in Irish Catholic culture, where I see a possible link back to earlier practices) - Social justice as the working out of the desires of the gods for the world through us (something that was always strongly embedded in my liberal and socially-radical Christian path, and which has remained a religious thing for me). And probably a few other things, too. *I don't know that I would call it a 'monotheist' background though. My partner is Jewish and our cultures have very little in common. Muslim culture is even more different, with vastly different cultural elements going into a Muslim heritage. I think that a huge number of people mean 'Christian thinking' when they talk about 'monotheist thinking'.
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Post by Intaier on Apr 3, 2015 11:47:56 GMT -6
I like that you made this thread, Intaier. I think it's important not to through the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak ;) For me, I am not trying to reconcile the religious beliefs of Catholicism with polytheism but instead reconcile the Catholic traditions I grew up with while not having the religious beliefs. I figured out, though, that I can take the secular parts of Catholic celebrations that mean a lot to me and just have them be family customs. This is what I did with Christmas--I call it now "Giftmas" officially and celebrate giving gifts, having a tree, and all the festive stuff that is really much a part of my cultural heritage...even if it doesn't have any real religious significance to me anymore. I think I once wrote you about this on Tumblr. For me, "Giftmas" works very well. because during the soviet times, the Christmas traditions were absorbed into New Year celebration. The New year had it all: the gifts, the decorated tree, waiting for the midnight, lots of fun and parties. Gifts are brought not by Santa Claus, but by Grandfather Frost (russian folklore character), sometimes accompanied by his daughter/granddaughter (Snegurochka) and staff of helpers (snowmans and forest animals). So, the winter holidays for us (the generation of people grown in Soviet Union) always were secular, without any real religious baggage, and that's in fact great. "Happy new Year" wishes don't offend anyone's religious feelings :) It's interesting that even when I learned about Christmas traditions, the decorated tree & stuff did not start having religious meaning for me. It's all a part of New Year. And because russians are weird, most of us celebrate New year twice: according to modern (gregorian) calendar, and according to old (Julian) calendar, which was in use before the Revolution (and still in use in Orthodox Church). So, 14th january is an unofficial holiday of "Old New Year" (=New Year according to Old Calendar) and usually russian people do not remove the decorated tree at least until 14th january. Just a reason to have more fun :)
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Post by saintfelicity on Apr 5, 2015 20:13:27 GMT -6
Ooh, good topic!
I've had two monotheist viewpoints, Catholicism which I grew up in, and Baptist which I just spent two or three years in. There's not a whole lot that I've wanted to bring over from being Baptist... I don't know that that's so much the religion itself as it is the things that were happening to me at the time, but that's a bit I've tried to shove out. That said, there's definitely a sense of ecstatic wonderment that I experienced a lot then, that is something I aspire to in my practice now.
There's definitely a lot of great stuff from Catholicism though! As much as I disliked Reconciliation and still question how it's applied (especially when little kids have to do it), there's a really important sense there of being honest with myself and spending time in fruitful, quiet contemplation. I think that ties with a certain awed, respectful reverence, too. I also really liked Naomi's point about social justice being the gods working through us - I wouldn't have thought of that myself but that's definitely something that I loved and still try to do.
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Tides
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Post by Tides on Aug 13, 2016 14:21:34 GMT -6
I was raised in a mixed Protestant-Catholic household (we attended various Protestant churches, but school and home were decided Catholic in faith and tradition). My unorthodox Catholic background has given me a number of things that I proudly carry forward, including the idea of a home worship.
My grandmothers both had small shrine to the Virgin set up at home, separate from the orthodox faith they practiced at church (one grandmother, during the Vietnam war, had monthly novenas that all the draft boards in the country would burn down that she prayed in her home practice). This does make me infinitely more comfortable with developing my own home practices, as I have distinct practices to draw on and develop from.
I'm Irish American and my family, generally speaking, draws heavily on the saints. While theological arguments can be had on both sides of the aisle, this is a boon, in my book, toward my personal, intimate understanding of the spiritual world.
I deeply, deeply appreciate the part of leftist Catholicism that I was raised with that ties my religious beliefs to social action and political movement. Social justice is spiritual for me and I am proud to carry that through to polytheism (which, in my personal experience, in the leftist political sphere is heavily tied to the far right/white nationalism and I would love to change that).
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Post by starlight on Sept 9, 2016 0:29:14 GMT -6
I was raised Catholic but I couldn't call myself Catholic now because there's significant amounts of doctrine and dogma that I don't agree with. But as a child, learning about Jesus' teachings being filtered down into "Love God, and love your neighbour as yourself" and also "God is love" has left me with the conviction that love is the most important force in life. And maturity has shown me that what love truly is is not a wishy-washy feeling, but something very, very strong that keeps you going even when you believe you can't. Also, the idea that God is everywhere has brought me to the belief that all physical life, including minerals and plants (the jury is out just yet on the man-made stuff), is divine and holds a consciousness. (I have also experienced this.) This is what leads me towards polytheism, although I'm still trying to feel my way towards the meaning of deity is this case. Are these consciousnesses on a similar level to human consciousness, or are they higher up the consciousness hierarchy and therefore indeed deities. I've just ordered a couple of books about religion and polytheism - one of which was Allec 's recommendation on another thread - because I need stepping stones from where I have been to where I'm going. The Case for Polytheism and The Case for God. (The intro in The Case for God was very interesting, given the Religion is Addiction/Huff Post article I read a few days back. It looked at how the concepts of religion, faith and deity have changed, and the part mythology played in human life. It might shed some light, for me, on how to look at the Irish tales. ) So, yeah, for me Love and the immanence of a power greater than myself are what I'm moving forward with.
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aneczyk
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Post by aneczyk on Jan 25, 2017 12:31:10 GMT -6
I think being Christian helped me learn to prioritize love, which probably lead to my Aphrodite worship today, and also to protect the vulnerable. I was very involved in social justice, growing up. Also, being Christian gave me a starting point for being open to religion. If I'd been raised in an atheist family, I don't think I would have had that.
Also, being raised Irish Catholic specifically made me more open to the fae and more open to polytheism than if I'd been protestant. After all, I'd seen and heard about faeries already, growing up, and many Catholic families basically see the saints and angels the way polytheists see gods we're not devoted to.
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