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Post by hildeburh on Jul 12, 2015 5:37:36 GMT -6
Is ancestor veneration an aspect of your practice?
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Post by hildeburh on Aug 8, 2015 4:36:26 GMT -6
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callisto
Junior Member
Posts: 54
Religion: Dodekatheism
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Post by callisto on Aug 30, 2015 13:33:13 GMT -6
Surprised no one has commented, ancestor veneration is such a big part of our folkway, well attested in the sources. It is a curious thing that often there isn't much discussion on ancestor veneration in general among polytheists (anywhere, not just this board) given it is an aspect of various ancient religions/cultures. I wonder if part of the (lack of interest? de-emphasis? non-practice?) is due to the type of society we live in, with families often scattered far and wide so not much interaction occurs beyond people's immediate family. Even with immediate family there can be a lot of dysfunction and minimal interaction. Many people know little to nothing about their extended kin and, unfortunately, don't gain any interest (if ever) until a relative's death. So it's no wonder there's a lack of awareness or interest in connection to distant ancestors.
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calluna
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Pronouns: She/Her
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Post by calluna on Aug 30, 2015 15:56:32 GMT -6
I practise it but did not comment due to the thread being geared toward Heathen answers. I do not want to dilute it.
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aondeug
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Religion: Thai Theravada, Irish polytheism
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Post by aondeug on Aug 31, 2015 14:21:51 GMT -6
It factors in to mine in that I do respect what they did to pave the way, so to speak. A lot of people have lived and died to make the world what it is, as well as my place in it. There is also a sort of attachment I feel to what blood heritage I have. I may be horribly detached from it because that is just what American assimilation does to you, but still it is there and it is honestly one of the reasons that I am as interested in and attached to Gaelic polytheism as I am. I may not have grown up in Ireland or Scotland but both are parts of the continuous line of people that I am part of.
So every now and then I will make offerings, and I add them into various prayers and such. I don't believe that they still exist as those particular lives though, given the whole rebirth and anatta thing that comes with Buddhism.
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Post by hildeburh on Sept 4, 2015 5:34:41 GMT -6
You don't have to be a Heathen to comment, ancestor veneration has and is a part of many ancient religions. Germanic paganism was influenced by Celtic practices so we share a great deal of common ground Calluna.
I do agree Callisto, extended families are a thing of the past in western society but for me personally it makes me long all the more for the connection to kin that is lost. I guess that is one of the many reasons ancestor veneration is integral to my practice.
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aiwelin
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Post by aiwelin on Sept 8, 2015 7:43:57 GMT -6
My extended family is still pretty close, and ancestor veneration is a large part of my practice. Each morning I make tea to share with my ancestors, and I leave it on their shrine and take some time to remember them and their stories.
I think it doesn't get talked about as much because it's such a personal practice. I can describe it in generalities as I did above, but saying "Great-grandma Hattie loves rhubarb pie as an offering" or going on about my interactions with her doesn't strike me as something that's helpful or useful for others to read about, I guess.
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callisto
Junior Member
Posts: 54
Religion: Dodekatheism
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Post by callisto on Sept 8, 2015 17:33:52 GMT -6
Yes, ancestor veneration is a very personal thing not only today but in ancient times as well. As such it can be difficult for those developing their practices to sort out how to go about it in a way that meshes with traditional practice as what still exists of ancient record can be incomplete. In Greek religion for example info is gleaned in part between what is known of funerary practices coupled with the rise of hero worship. So I think what's often meant by having discussion is hearing about how people go about it in keeping with tradition, not just the personal details of the person's ancestors.
I think another common struggle for those who don't have an extended family or extensive interaction with their family is building that connection with ancestors. For that, I think working on one's genealogy can be a great help. While it starts off as mostly compiling names and dates ancestors become more than text on a screen as the person discovers additional details about their lives. Even if there are not a lot of personal details to find, learning about the era and what life was like for that ancestor helps to see them as a real person and not just a name. Discovering a photo, some personal artifact, or just learning of something they liked and adding that item to one's shrine can assist with building that connection.
People also struggle with reconciling that their religion is often widely different from that of their kin which was not the case in ancient times. Sometimes modern polytheists experience anxiety about "what if I offend them" with my mode of practice.
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Post by Allec on Sept 9, 2015 14:34:53 GMT -6
I finally started to do some ancestor veneration in my practice. It took a while for me to get to it because, as Callisto said, I worried about offending my non-polytheist ancestors. I also don't/didn't know a lot of my extended family, not even the ones still alive. My grandmother is the only person who I've known and who has passed on, but we weren't terribly close before her death. Even so, she's Catholic so I worry about offending her.
But I picked up some literature on the subject and got the idea to do an ancestor elevation for each ancestor I want to have a dedicated place for on my shrine. Thanks to genealogy research, I know a bit more than I did about people who lived before me--even if it's just their names. After the elevation, I plan to ask the particular ancestor via divination what they want and if I should continue venerating them.
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calluna
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Post by calluna on Sept 10, 2015 16:00:32 GMT -6
I think ancestor veneration is a little weird to me as a polytheist topic because...it's so normal for me, if that makes any sense. I mean, I was raised in a nominally Christian/agnostic home (full of witches...) and ancestor veneration was always a part of my life, so for me, it is a little bit hard to imagine not doing it. I'm kind of sitting here going "Great-Grandpa Simon would be BRASSED OFF if he didn't get his chocolate birthday cake."
I do think it's very important to keep the ancestors in mind, though. I know when I was adopted, my gran made a point of "offering" me to the ancestors and tying me to them/severing ties with the biologicals. That sounds weird, but basically, she made sure the ancestors adopted me too, if that makes any more sense.
For me it's little things I do through the day: talking to them if I pass the shrine, offering food before anyone gets any, ensuring that birthdays are remembered and celebrated with goodies, inviting them to dine with us if they so choose, and not closing off discussions of my day.
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Post by TheModernSouthernPolytheist on Sept 16, 2015 17:09:47 GMT -6
Sorry, I've been woefully absent from the forum for a hot minute now. But ancestor veneration definitely plays a role in my practice. I ask for their protection and guidance and feel almost as if they watch over us in times of need, akin to a guardian spirit for lack of a better phrasing atm.
As my username might suggest, I strongly identify with my Southern (US) heritage, so I blend not just Gaelic traditions, but Southern ones, too, when it comes to ancestor veneration. On one hand and like others have said, my ancestors haven't practiced any form of polytheism (to my knowledge) in at least a few hundred years. They're not even Catholic (but mostly fundamentalist biblical-literalist Baptists), so there's not saint stuff even sprinkled in. So I often wonder about whether they feel honored or not. I've never gotten a negative reaction to offerings that I'm aware of, but it's something I think about regularly. I make sure to leave things like sweet tea, Coca-Cola, red velvet cake, etc., because they're so strongly tied to Southern identity right along with things like whiskey for more distant ancestors. I'm somewhat of the opinion that ancestors gain some kind of universal knowledge that they didn't have while alive that allows them to appreciate what's done for them, even if it's not something they would have done or asked for.
I keep a shrine for them alongside other shrines to the gods full of family pictures and the like. Like all my shrines, their shrine is somewhat hidden away and I really look forward to bein able to have it more in the open one day, preferably in the form of pictures down a stairway with little floating shelves to leave candles and offerings on.
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Boggan
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Post by Boggan on Sept 23, 2015 13:56:37 GMT -6
Ancestor veneration is a natural part of my practice as well. I keep a shrine of our family in our bedroom, using a bookshelf that holds pictures, candles, personal items of our departed loved ones and this beautiful bronze and copper tree that has leather thronged photo frames with pictures of our immediate family (grandparents, parents, us etc) in them as the center piece. I leave offerings at least once a week and start the morning off each day with a bit of contemplation upon where I've come from and those who came before me. So yeah, definitely a big part of my veneration.
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aondeug
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Post by aondeug on Sept 23, 2015 19:32:20 GMT -6
Whoops. Posted in the wrong thread.
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Post by Banned User on Oct 1, 2015 13:12:40 GMT -6
do the science
1. There is you as individual.
2. There is Ma and there is Pa.
3. Ma has her Ma and Pa. Pa has his Ma and Pa.
so that means: 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192
.and so on. Given those generations (from which you are descended) at various times would have been at eachothers throats, which ancestors would you choose exactly?
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Post by Radha Ní Dhaimhín on Oct 1, 2015 13:39:18 GMT -6
do the science
1. There is you as individual.
2. There is Ma and there is Pa.
3. Ma has her Ma and Pa. Pa has his Ma and Pa.
so that means: 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192
.and so on. Given those generations (from which you are descended) at various times would have been at eachothers throats, which ancestors would you choose exactly? I'm still new to ancestor veneration - meaning that someone who has practiced it in a meaningful way for some time now can either verify or correct what I'm about to say. However, I've come to understand it as not only the veneration of your more immediate family - your grandparents, your parents, your great-grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins/brothers/sisters, any meaningful adults who helped "raise" you (family friends, teachers, etc), and pets - but the veneration of inspiring figures who have come before you. Joan of Arc, for example, has always inspired me and although I would be honoring her in a manner inconsistent with the Catholic method, it would still be a form of veneration. Some people give honor to whole nations of people. If you didn't have strong ties to your immediate family, then they don't need to be included. You can basically pick or choose who you wish to spend time on. I think you're looking at it too broadly, when most polytheists tend to pick and choose who to venerate.
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