|
|
Post by hildeburh on Oct 4, 2015 7:25:48 GMT -6
Whether you choose to venerate your ancestors as a collective or as individuals depends entirely upon your world view. Personally, I see them as a collective, rather like the cult of the Matrons/Matronae, the Disir or Idesa. They are the roots of our family tree, the tree is a whole entity, interdependent. Do we have some root rot and dead wood in our tree, yep likely as not but as I do not venerate individuals that is of no concern.
It is irrelevant to me whether they were pagan or not, I worship according to my world view not theirs. Ancestors can help or hinder family luck, so I will continue to court a constructive relationship with them.
In some Anglo Saxon and Icelandic royal genealogies certain Gods were considered ancestors. Heroes were also venerated and called upon for advice, strength and guidance. I doubt whether societies that venerate ancestors, past and present, bothered with numerical analysis, I guess the more you have on your side the better :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by Allec on Oct 4, 2015 19:58:09 GMT -6
They are the roots of our family tree, the tree is a whole entity, interdependent. Do we have some root rot and dead wood in our tree, yep likely as not but as I do not venerate individuals that is of no concern. It is irrelevant to me whether they were pagan or not, I worship according to my world view not theirs. Ancestors can help or hinder family luck, so I will continue to court a constructive relationship with them. I like this metaphor  I actually have a few ancestors on my ancestor altar that I did an ancestor elevation for. Basically I tried to elevate their spirit and help them with any emotional baggage they may have. I also took the time to explain to them what a Gaelic Polytheist is and why I am doing what I'm doing. I have a grandmother who died I may do an elevation for...then not place her on my altar. She was horrible to my mom in ways I don't forgive and so I may try to help her as obligation to my ancestors but I want nothing to do with her after that. |
|
callisto
Junior Member
Posts: 54 
Religion: Dodekatheism
|
Post by callisto on Oct 6, 2015 14:15:13 GMT -6
do the science ... and so on. Given those generations (from which you are descended) at various times would have been at eachothers throats, which ancestors would you choose exactly?I take it this person was removed for some infraction. But to answer the question (in case someone comes along with a similar thought): as another noted "ancestors" to modern practitioners can mean either blood relatives and/or honored dead other than relatives such as those who were influential or important to the individual (e.g., mentors, elders of one's tradition who have crossed over, etc.). As for blood kin, the number of relatives in previous generations is irrelevant, as is whether they would have/did get along with one another. There are various views on the nature of a person's soul/spirit/essence/energy once incorporeal as to whether (or how much) of their worldly personality/identity remains. Often people see ancestor veneration similar to hosting a party for your living loved ones - in that you have no control over whether or not they'll accept your invitation, but you make the effort and let them know they have a standing invite. With continued practice, the connection between the person and the venerated will strengthen and the person will likely come to perceive and understand whether what they're doing is pleasing. |
|
callisto
Junior Member
Posts: 54
Religion: Dodekatheism
|
Post by callisto on Oct 6, 2015 14:40:59 GMT -6
The idea behind ancestor veneration is not to judge their actions or the reasons behind their actions. It is to simply honor the way they helped get you here. This relates to a similar discussion I was in on another forum. One of the issues people wrestle with stems from viewing - and judging - the actions of their ancestors from their modern sensibilities without considering the world view and circumstances of the era their ancestors lived in. Having done something that is reprehensible by today's sensibilities does not meanit was reprehensible in the era/society the ancestor lived in (or that they would have even known to question the view/action). E.g., having been a slave owner didn't always mean the person subjugated others, sometimes it was out of necessity. Free blacks would buy their slave relatives when they could and (on record) those relatives continued to be slaves in order to keep their families together, sometimes white slave owners would sell or bequeath a favored slave to one of their relatives or allow them to be sold to their own families for the same reason. Ultimately though, all of their actions in life cumulatively led to the combination of events that brought about the person's existence. Even so, one is not required to venerate any and all relatives even if it was feasible to know the measure of their respective lives. |
|
Searlait
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Pronouns: She/Her
Religion: Gaelic Polytheist
|
Post by Searlait on Oct 22, 2015 19:46:57 GMT -6
Like Allec, I don't have too many people whom I've lost, but I do have a letter written by my deceased great-grandmother that mentions me as a baby, and according to my mom, we're very similar. So I would probably put that on a shrine if I ever get around to building one. If anything, the real ancestor shrine is at my grandparents', where there's a circular table of all the old photographs of dead family members, and amusingly enough, there's a St. Brighid's Cross on it. ETA: (Well well! I seem to have missed some unpleasantness.) I believe venerating ancestors is acknowledging the vastness of human history, and the wisdom of a lot of lives lived. Knowing that you're part of something bigger (which I totally get may not be a very popular way of looking at things), and knowing that we wouldn't be here (our physical bodies, our ideologies, our societal values, heck even our fashion) without some kind of input from those who came before us. To be frank, I think in my case venerating is more like gravely acknowledging. |
|
Boggan
Newbie
Posts: 46 
Pronouns: He/Him
Religion: Gaelic Polytheist
|
Post by Boggan on Apr 8, 2016 9:47:21 GMT -6
Some thoughts I had this morning upon ancestor veneration:
The Value of Who You Call “Ancestor”
It is a powerful thing knowing not only where you come from but from who.
It is also just as powerful in knowing what you value.
Through four exhaustive years of genealogy research, countless hours talking to extended and immediate family and even a round of genetic testing, I know where my ancestors came from and who many of them were. I take a comfort in knowing where my roots lie and from what soil we have stood and raised families.
But, I have to ask myself: what is the value in it? Is it a cultural pride or a means of validating the ancestors I venerate? How deep does my research go and just how accurate is it? What is the true value of it all?
I enjoy certainties, factual answers. I enjoy knowing that I am very Scottish and Irish and have roots in Gaelic countries and cultures. I enjoy knowing the names of my distant relations and knowing of their journeys, their victories, their failures. I enjoy knowing who has come before me.
But many don’t. And there are some who do know but do not wish to honor those people for a variety of reasons, all of them valid. Some turn to others not of their blood and call them “friend”, “family” or “ancestor”.
And that is just as important and worthy of being celebrated. While I may know my genetic and cultural roots and take pride in it, I also find joy in honoring those who have no blood relation to me but who are also just as worthy of such veneration. There are those who have influenced our lives on such a level that they deserve to be recognized as “ancestor”, “mentor”, “family” or what have you. They inspire, give purpose and help us define who we are and what we choose to embody.
Those people or figures (be they mythological or something else entirely) are just as much ancestors to us as my grandfather is. Knowing your familial roots, especially as someone who engages in ancestral worship, can be a very powerful and defining thing but it is only as valuable as you allow it to be. You choose who to remember and who to honor, not the dictations of your blood or the wishes of your family. Rather, it is ultimately you and your love of them, be they honored due to blood or deed, that gives them definition.
|
|
